Only ABS on the rear, maybe not perfectly adjusted trailer brakes, and a panic stop.
IMO there is going to be a lot of "banging and clanging" as the old style rear wheel only ABS cycles. If the trailer is pushing a bit, the "banging and clanging" is going to be exacerbated by a huge amount since the older type ABS systems are pretty primitive compared to what is available today.
I would be more concerned with the truck mechanicals than the 5er's.
And I can lock up the drum brakes on my 5er if needed. However locking up and skidding is not the quickest way to stop, in fact that will add considerably to your stopping distance.
Enjoy the winter, you picked a good spot to winter, there'll be no damage, sometimes a good scare is a good thing? Takes the complacency out of towing, makes one a little more aware, as I said, enjoy the winter, lets hope its a good one weather wise, merry christmas to you all.
To the OP. do you have a time based brake controller? It sounds to me that when you slammed on your brakes the tv took the entire force of the fiver with little assistance from the trailer brakes. This makes sense based on how time based brake controllers work.
When I had my time based controller there would be 2-3 seconds before the trailer brakes were at max power. This can make all the difference in the world. Your scenario perfectly discribes a time based controller.
I am not throwing stones, just trying to understand.
In a panic stop with a properly adjusted proportional brake controller your full trailer brakes should come on the instant that you start the panic stop.
If you have a time based controller, I highly recommend that you get a proportional brake controller ASAP and take the time to adjust it properly.
Likewise if you have a proportional controller now double check that it is set up properly. It is worth the effort.
Tekonsha makes some of the best proportional controllers on the market but there are many others on the market as well.
TT: 1995 Layton 2910
Tow Vehicle: 1999 F-350, v10, 2wd, Crew Cab, Dually
Hitch: Draw-Tite Trunnion WD Hitch
Sway Control: Valley dual friction sway control
Brake Control: Tekonsha Voyager
"It's Kind of Fun To Do The Impossible"
Hi All! I have to confess that the recent posts about Lippert pin box failures is causing me great anxiety and distress. Without going into great detail, our rigs GVCW is 18,000 lbs, give or take a nickel or two. Weight police - please back off - AFAIK it is within specs for our truck. I had a bit of cerebral flatulence and went through a red light at the bottom of a RH curve/hill near Summerland, BC with all wheels on TV and 5'r locked up and smoking (Missed the red Mustang coming through the intersection by less than 6 inches) So much so, in fact, that I completely destroyed the two brand new front tires of our TV and they had to be replaced as soon as possible (cords broken, carcass separated, etc. etc.). The trailer tires and rear tires were checked by the tire shop and found to be OK, just the weight transfer to the front tires was more than they were apparently able to handle, although, to their credit, they held air.
I have only towed the RV about 50 km's or so, from the "incident" to our current CG at Osoyoos, BC. To my untrained and inexperienced eye everything looks OK and without any obviously visible damage. The hitch (a REESE 16,000lb slider/4 way) still sits firmly in the box of our TV and the pin box still looks "the same" hanging under the nose of the Cougar. Should I be concerned about the status of the pin box frame welds or do you think that everything is going to be OK after experiencing those kinds of deceleration and G forces?
What do y'all think? If I need to have a closer look at the pin box welds where do I start? What do I look for?
Also, Osoyoos is our winter "home" so we don't plan on moving the Cougar again until sometime in April of 2012.
As Always, Thanks and Cheers!
Mike and Carol
Mike, some things to think about. If the FW's tires were locked and smoking, the FW was stopping to the best of its ability and I'd bet that far less stress (other than the first microsecond when the truck's brakes engaged before the FW's brakes) was placed on the king pin than you think. I'd be willing to bet that hitting a pot hole or bad RR crossing at speed puts =much= more stress on the king pin/hitch/pin box than a panic stop like this. Not knowing how far you slid, it's entirely logical that you wore the front tires through the tread =and= the cord, down to the inner carcass. You're still carrying, and trying to stop, the "load" of the king pin, just the same as if you has a load of gravel in the bed, but no trailer. What you also get, is weight transfer to the front end, just as you do =any= time you stop. Watch any car brake, from mild to extreme, and you'll see the nose drop. Same goes for your TV, even under load. YES, you do transfer weight to the front when you brake and that's why disk brakes on the =front= are much more effective and why it's easy to destroy the front tires in a panic stop. Glad you're all OK and a couple tires are cheap when you think of the alternative. All I can say is that I've BTDT, too.
2002 GMC Sierra 2500 HD Duramax Crew Cab 4x4
Banks Bullet Tuner and Monster Exhaust
B&W Turnover Ball with 5th Wheel Companion
2004 Komfort 25FSG Fifth Wheel
1936 John Deere Model A
International Flying Farmers 55 Year Member
The O.P. doesn't seem to want to talk about his trailer brakes.
Believe you me, I know, since I've asked (TWICE) what the story is in that department.
Must we conclude that they weren't hooked up at the time of this incident?
That might explain a lot, if true.
I KIND OF RESENT THAT POST, PREDICATED ON THE FACT THAT YOU REALLY DON'T GIVE A GUY MUCH TIME TO GET HIS POOP IN A GROUP TO PROVIDE AN ANSWER!! Yes, I was yelling! Sheesh! What kind of idiot are you trying to imply that I am? I stated that I felt that the trailer brakes were locked up based on the volume of rubber smoke that wafted by the unit after I got it all stopped. Don't forget that I just descended the Rogers pass without any problems so the trailer brakes were working and set properly and in trim for my brake controller. I didn't get outta the rig to see the length, depth and breadth of my skid marks. I just wanted to get the hell outta the intersection and into a pull out so I could check for damages.
We examined the trailer tires and they did not show any signs of undue stress or flat spotting. So perhaps I was wrong in thinking that the RV brakes were locked full on. We do have an older brake controller in the TV and I can't even tell you the name of it right now - it is old and activates the trailer brakes as it is supposed to. I set it to activate the RV brakes just before the TV brakes come on so the RV is pulling down the speed before the truck brakes "get busy". Regardless, before we pull out of here I will pull each wheel off of the Cougar and check the brakes, wiring, magnets and tires for safe trailering
My thanks to those who have provided support and encouragement without jumping to egregious or fanciful conclusions about my knowledge, expertise and experience in hauling trailers and hooking up and adjusting trailer brakes. BTW the trailer did track perfectly behind the TV during my panic stop, it did not skid sideways or engage in any other abhorrent behavior so I again maintain that the trailer brakes worked just fine.
It's late and I am tired so I will close this post.
Again, Cheers and thanks
Something Old, Something New
1999 Dodge RAM 2500, 5.9L 24 valve CTD, Edge Juice w/Attitude, 4" turbo back MBRP exhaust.
2011 Cougar 318SAB
Mike, Carol and our 4 legged "furry child" Kenzie Shweenie Tod
In our stated case the truck ABS system worked as it should. There was lot of banging and clanking much of it due IMO to the pulsating effect the ABS system produces when working correctly. The 5th wheel stayed in back of the truck and we stopped in a stright line. I have no idea if the trailer brakes locked up as we did not go back and check for skid marks.None of my tires truck or camper suffered damage. The OP may have stopped a lot harder than we did but we see nothing to question about his experience.
Lippert is the #1 RV Trailer frame builder in the World. There are 8.2 million RV's on the road (registered) in North America right now. Most of us are between 34 and 54 years of age, and 1 in 10 in that age group own an RV. And RVers in general range in age statistically from 32 to 75 years old.
160,000 towable trailers were sold in 2010. And only a handful of trailer manufacturers build their own trailer frame chassis, Carriage did, NuWa, New Horizons, DRV, Northwood Nash, etc.
And a very few use frame brands other than Lippert. Leland and Norco/BAL for example.
So it's safe to say that at least 70,000 of the 160,000 trailers sold in 2010 were built on Lippert frames. How many actual frame failures, 1st hand..."It happened to me" do we really hear...or see with photographic proof? A few...maybe 1/10th of 1% of all Lippert Frames made?
It's a well known consumer fact, that if a purchaser of any product is upset or angry at the product manufacturer, they will tell 10 other persons, and that 10 will tell 10 more. So the Lippert Chassis failure stories have grown to become legendary. And spread around all over the place.
So I've said it before...I wouldn't base my purchase of a new 5th wheel or TT on the brand of frame that's under it. All of my Jayco's have had Leland Frames, but if I saw a nice Lippert Framed Redwood RV or a CrossRoads RV that I liked...I certainly wouldn't obsess and lose sleep about what frame it had!