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docj

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Posted: 12/23/11 10:33am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joebedford wrote:

More To See wrote:

And your security for banking and other such internet activities is vastly greater with a cell tower connection. With wi-fi you would have to set up a VPN and not many do that. We just don't use campground wi-fi anymore.

Really? Doesn't 256 bit end-to-end encryption over WiFi give pretty good protection (i.e. not worth the effort for thieves to hack).?


The answer is "yes" the encryption employed when a site shows up as "https" is quite sufficient to protect you. Anyone who says you need a VPN is misinformed. It's a stronger encryption standard than you will get on any wifi, particularly if something outdated like WEP is used.

As I understand it, the real risk of using a totally unsecured wifi links is the potential for someone to hack into the network and, through that, into your computer. That's one of the reasons I use a router with NAT translation in my RV along with good firewalls on all of my computers.


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ColoCamper

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Posted: 12/23/11 12:07pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Regarding speed-up / slow-down speeds on the in-park internet systems; we managed a CG several years ago that had a good WiFi system - three nodes around the CG, DSL connection. We not only had a sign displayed advising all to NOT stream any video, music or to Skype as it decreased bandwidth, we also reinterated the ban when folks checked in, all to no avail as some continued to stream. Some folks just don't care! In today's world, it's all about ME!

John

* This post was edited 12/23/11 02:48pm by ColoCamper *


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docj

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Posted: 12/23/11 03:22pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ColoCamper wrote:

Regarding speed-up / slow-down speeds on the in-park internet systems; we managed a CG several years ago that had a good WiFi system - three nodes around the CG, DSL connection. We not only had a sign displayed advising all to NOT stream any video, music or to Skype as it decreased bandwidth, we also reinterated the ban when folks checked in, all to no avail as some continued to stream. Some folks just don't care! In today's world, it's all about ME!

John


It's my understanding that there is software available to operators of wifi systems which can "throttle" heavy data users to prevent them from overloading the system. Possibly, the owners of the campground you were managing didn't want to invest in the software necessary to manage their wifi network. They also appear not to have wanted to invest in the necessary upgrade to their DSL line to handle customer data loads.

IMHO if you offer high speed internet to customers you have to assume they will use it as they are used to doing at home. I don't think it's realistic to blame customers for misusing the internet access; if you have an undersized system then you should take the necessary steps to ensure that people can't overload it. At least that way only a few people will be annoyed when they discover they can't stream on it and everyone else at least has a usable connection. If you don't do that then no one will be satisfied because the connection will periodically become totally unusable for everyone. That's the situation I find at 3 out of 4 campgrounds these days. And that's why I end up using my cellular modem most of the time. I'd rather CG's not claim they have wifi if all they offer is nothing more than the equivalent of a residential DSL line split between a couple of hundred campers.

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Posted: 12/23/11 04:43pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We go regularly to a campground that uses Tengo internet for its wifi. We have had only one problem - we use a netbook and a laptop and for some reason the netbook could not get a connection, while it is able to connect everywhere else. The laptop had no problem. I am not sure if this is the campground's system or Tengo, but I got a usb wifi plug for the netbook and not use its onboard wifi card, and with that it connects just fine at this campground.

Tengo does take a bit of doing to log in and such and someone less computer "understanding" might not be able to get any connection at all, thinking that it is poor wifi, when it is actually the log in process. Many think that all you need to do is scan, connect, and then go pick up your email - but if you don't open the browser first and log in, nothing happens.


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Posted: 12/23/11 08:01pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ColoCamper wrote:

Regarding speed-up / slow-down speeds on the in-park internet systems; we managed a CG several years ago that had a good WiFi system - three nodes around the CG, DSL connection. We not only had a sign displayed advising all to NOT stream any video, music or to Skype as it decreased bandwidth, we also reinterated the ban when folks checked in, all to no avail as some continued to stream. Some folks just don't care! In today's world, it's all about ME!

John


As an IT guy going on 21 years in the field, you learn that you give an inch, people will take a mile, then whine on yelp and other review sites that you didn't give them two miles. So, the first thing I tell CG owners if they want to hire me, put up a sign and make Internet behavior rules part of the CG rules. A user trying to hack the Wi-Fi network will be physically ejected from the property, and criminal charges of electronic trespass filed.

If you tell people to not stream or download pirated content, they will laugh in your face. You have to take precautions, or just say heck with it, and just don't bother running a Wi-Fi service whatsoever. Here in Austin, a number of coffee houses have turned off their Wi-Fi networks because of abuse. Why run a service that costs money and time for no gains back?

Here is what I do with a CG's Wi-Fi service: I use software that people have to log in in order to use the service. (This keeps freeloaders at bay, which are extremely common, and allows for accountability should a user start trying to hack from the campsite's wireless network.) Then I limit user bandwidth, especially ports that are used for streaming video. If they try SSL or a VPN to get around that, no biggie, as their total bandwidth is limited as well. Of course, I also use a malicious site, and anti P2P filter. If someone wants to pirate the latest game, they can do so on their own IP address.

The website filters are pure CYA so the CG doesn't have to deal with law enforcement coming by due to a user downloading movies illegally. Finally, I run more than just one wireless network, but multiple. One is just for users. One is just for credit card transactions and isolated from everything else. Finally, one is for the office. This way, even if someone hacks the billing/user gateway, the networks that have other items on them are safe.

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Posted: 12/25/11 07:14am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

john b wrote:

This is our 5th year at a park with tengonet and have no complaints.On rain days or big sports days it slows down as the streamers/skypers are at it even though we are advised against it. The owners last year were advised to install their own and did it for a few days but went back as it wasn't as easy as their advisers said it would be.I am on it now & it runs right along nicely.It is free & some people would complain if hung with a brand new rope anyways. I just wish many of the whiners would bring their own crackers JMHO jb We go to resorts to meet folks & have a wonderful time not sit in front of a computer all the time. It reminds mw of the folks who are 100 yards from their drive going some where & are already on the cell phone,DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHh


the RV Park in Camp Verde, AZ (Distant Drums RV Park) will immediately throttle back your internet speed if it detects any sort of streaming data. Stop streaming and the throttle is released. Keeps everyone honest. BTW, this is a v-e-r-y nice park.


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Posted: 12/24/11 04:18pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

if i know a rv park has tengo i go right on down the road.

john b

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Posted: 12/24/11 04:41pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This is our 5th year at a park with tengonet and have no complaints.On rain days or big sports days it slows down as the streamers/skypers are at it even though we are advised against it. The owners last year were advised to install their own and did it for a few days but went back as it wasn't as easy as their advisers said it would be.I am on it now & it runs right along nicely.It is free & some people would complain if hung with a brand new rope anyways. I just wish many of the whiners would bring their own crackers JMHO jb We go to resorts to meet folks & have a wonderful time not sit in front of a computer all the time. It reminds mw of the folks who are 100 yards from their drive going some where & are already on the cell phone,DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHh


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ColoCamper

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Posted: 12/24/11 10:57am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Docj “if you offer high speed internet to customers you have to assume they will use it as they are used to doing at home. I don't think it's realistic to blame customers for misusing the internet access; if you have an undersized system then you should take the necessary steps to ensure that people can't overload it”

I understand and do appreciate that folks will assume they can, and should be able to use the CG WiFi access. After all, they did pay for it, either as a part of the CG fee or as an extra, as is the case with Tengo and many other providers. The problem is, and we experience this with not only the CG we managed, but with many other CGs we have stayed at; folks will log onto their favorite internet radio station in the morning, and not log off until they go to bed in the evening; they log onto Netflix and stream the latest 130 minute long movie; they log onto Skype sometime during the day to talk to ‘Johnny’, but never log off just in case ‘Johnny’ has something else to say later; and on and on! Regardless of how great the bandwidth capability is, it doesn’t take too many folks misusing the system to impact the rest of the users.

As a CG manager, we offered the owners suggestions and recommendations for a number things that affected either the overall operation or customer relations. That is all any CG manager or camp host can do. How those thoughts are acted on is entirely up to those footing the bill.

JMHO - John

docj

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Posted: 12/24/11 11:42am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ColoCamper wrote:


As a CG manager, we offered the owners suggestions and recommendations for a number things that affected either the overall operation or customer relations. That is all any CG manager or camp host can do. How those thoughts are acted on is entirely up to those footing the bill.


I agree; at least you were making the effort. It's surprising that more CG owners don't treat the quality of their wifi as a business decision just as important as how many washers and dryers they have in the laundry rooms. They probably will eventually or they will lose customers as a result of not having done so.

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