atfulldraw wrote: We've been fighting this as we look for a new home base....
It totally caught us off guard that some of the gated, 10-20 acres homesites we were shopping would not allow us to park our trailer on the property INSIDE OF A GARAGE!!
However, as the economy has developers sweating bullets, we've found some willing to include a waiver of that restriction if we will just sign the purchase agreement
It is actually working to our advantage.
Be very cautious of a developer who is willing to give you any sort of "waiver" for a violation of the CCR's. It is entirely possible that they have no such authority, particularly if other homes have been sold as those buyers are entitled to full compliance. By the time the legal poo hits the fan it will be your very expensive legal problem and the developer will be on the beach in Barbados spending your money. Good Luck!
X2 IMHO The developer is the HOA until more than 50% of the lots are sold, then it is turned over to the lot owners. Anything the developer changes must be properly amended to the CCR's, or he's just handing you a paper to sell a lot. Just my experience, yours may differ.
brooks
The ones we looked at were new with no lots sold, we would be buying a controlling interest due to the acreage we are acquiring anyway. On the other possibility, we would have a recorded modification of the restrictive covenants, we will cover it before closing.
Lots of these restrictions are so outdated....now lots of people build an outbuilding, garage, or even barn with living quarters before the main house is constructed. There are some that allow an Rv on the property for a year during construction of the main dwelling.
It's not like we are hauling a 1980 toaster out there and dumping it.....I want a masonry/stone skin over metal building, enclosed to protect the toy hauler anyway, and it's going to be tucked at the back of a twenty acre "lot" with landscaping. I'm going to have to look at it too
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atfulldraw wrote: We've been fighting this as we look for a new home base....
It totally caught us off guard that some of the gated, 10-20 acres homesites we were shopping would not allow us to park our trailer on the property INSIDE OF A GARAGE!!
However, as the economy has developers sweating bullets, we've found some willing to include a waiver of that restriction if we will just sign the purchase agreement
It is actually working to our advantage.
Be very cautious of a developer who is willing to give you any sort of "waiver" for a violation of the CCR's. It is entirely possible that they have no such authority, particularly if other homes have been sold as those buyers are entitled to full compliance. By the time the legal poo hits the fan it will be your very expensive legal problem and the developer will be on the beach in Barbados spending your money. Good Luck!
X2 IMHO The developer is the HOA until more than 50% of the lots are sold, then it is turned over to the lot owners. Anything the developer changes must be properly amended to the CCR's, or he's just handing you a paper to sell a lot. Just my experience, yours may differ.
brooks
That's my understanding and I question if a developer would properly ammend the CCRs after many homes were sold in fear of legal issues with those whose CCRs were changed from what they agreed to initially. If the current CCRs don't allow it I would not be looking for a way around them, but looking for a place where the CCRs allow for what you want to do.
Of course this is my layman's opinion and has absolutely no legal status.
For those that think public servants are evil for enforcing the laws are only doing so because they got caught. More often than not it’s a neighbor who turned in the offender the public servant is just doing job of enforcing the laws of which are put in place but the very people we all elect.
HOA’s and CC&R’s are not the same they are in fact two different mechanisms of restrictions HOA’s typically being much more stringent. They have electorate body and have greater enforcement power. CC&R’s are up to the other landowners to enforce and sue over. Most have no idea what CC&R’s are and today they are more or less archaic.
A variance to the codes (zoning ordinance) of the jurisdiction you are in is a difficult discretionary permit and just because I want it and the codes prevent it is not justification for it.
Don’t like the laws restricting RV’s talk to Staff. If need be attend a Planning Commission or Zoning Board and/or City Council or Board of Supervisors (county). At the beginning of each meeting there is an open forum to address these boards with whatever the public wants. They are not obligated to respond or delve into the matter but rather direct Staff to address the issue and open a dialog. In the end if you have reasonable adjustments to the current restrictions your level of success is much higher. Coming in with a high and mighty attitude it’s my property or just being difficult doesn’t help either. Regardless what you think about rules and regulations pertaining to private property this isn’t the arena to fight that, stick to your guns about what your overall goal is important. Just handle the situation professionally and with civilly and chances of success are higher. To many times people just don’t want to go through the motions to change the restrictions work w/ City Hall not fight it. In the end the City Council/Board of Supervisors are elected by us, use them to lean on and become sympathetic to your situation. Also, taking photos of all your neighbors for the practice of saying look they all do it…..just stop that’s akin to saying well everyone speeds so why can’t I. Rather take those pictures and come up with reasonable changes to the current ordinances/codes is going to yield much better results.
Personally I’ve got mine on the interior side, covered and well behind a fence. I care what my neighbors think and I know if I don’t want to look at something well I better not do it myself. I’m not a fan of being able to leave an RV or other type in the front yard, street side or on a public street regardless is if was a 300k unit or a piece of junk. There are always people on each side of the spectrum don’t want you to be able to store anything and those who store stuff and their property is an absolute eyesore.
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Please remember that there is a HUGE difference between State Laws, County ordinances, city ordinances, City Codes, and CCRs.
Covenants, Codes, and Restrictions are put ON THE PROPERTY DEED by the developers. They stay on the deed forever. There is no enforcement of these CCRs possible by local, county, or state law enforcement because they have no force of law. The HOA (Home Owner's Association, if any) CAN enforce the CCRs. They can often levy fines against the property owner, which, if not paid, can be entered as liens on the property.
The State, County, and Local governing bodies CAN grant exemptions to the regulations or laws if they so desire. An HOA probably can NOT add or subtract from the CCRs, but they CAN make new rules if they want to. Whether these new rules will go on the deed is questionable, I don't know.
A buyer can NOT avoid Local, County, or State laws. A buyer CAN avoid HOAs and CCRs. IMO it would be a smart thing to do. I did.
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Crazyfoe wrote: For those that think public servants are evil for enforcing the laws are only doing so because they got caught. More often than not it’s a neighbor who turned in the offender the public servant is just doing job of enforcing the laws of which are put in place but the very people we all elect.
HOA’s and CC&R’s are not the same they are in fact two different mechanisms of restrictions HOA’s typically being much more stringent. They have electorate body and have greater enforcement power. CC&R’s are up to the other landowners to enforce and sue over. Most have no idea what CC&R’s are and today they are more or less archaic.
A variance to the codes (zoning ordinance) of the jurisdiction you are in is a difficult discretionary permit and just because I want it and the codes prevent it is not justification for it.
Don’t like the laws restricting RV’s talk to Staff. If need be attend a Planning Commission or Zoning Board and/or City Council or Board of Supervisors (county). At the beginning of each meeting there is an open forum to address these boards with whatever the public wants. They are not obligated to respond or delve into the matter but rather direct Staff to address the issue and open a dialog. In the end if you have reasonable adjustments to the current restrictions your level of success is much higher. Coming in with a high and mighty attitude it’s my property or just being difficult doesn’t help either. Regardless what you think about rules and regulations pertaining to private property this isn’t the arena to fight that, stick to your guns about what your overall goal is important. Just handle the situation professionally and with civilly and chances of success are higher. To many times people just don’t want to go through the motions to change the restrictions work w/ City Hall not fight it. In the end the City Council/Board of Supervisors are elected by us, use them to lean on and become sympathetic to your situation. Also, taking photos of all your neighbors for the practice of saying look they all do it…..just stop that’s akin to saying well everyone speeds so why can’t I. Rather take those pictures and come up with reasonable changes to the current ordinances/codes is going to yield much better results.
Personally I’ve got mine on the interior side, covered and well behind a fence. I care what my neighbors think and I know if I don’t want to look at something well I better not do it myself. I’m not a fan of being able to leave an RV or other type in the front yard, street side or on a public street regardless is if was a 300k unit or a piece of junk. There are always people on each side of the spectrum don’t want you to be able to store anything and those who store stuff and their property is an absolute eyesore.
Both HOAs here in NoVa and in San Diego has a set of CC&Rs within the HOA declaration so I would bet in 99% of the cases it is in fact the HOA that enforces these CCRs even tho it appears the OP ran afoul of some zoning or land ordnance which is not a CCR issue. For instance many HOA CCRs have restrictions on the type of fences allowed, but still you have to in some locations get a permit from the town/county and it has their own requirements.
mowermech wrote: Please remember that there is a HUGE difference between State Laws, County ordinances, city ordinances, City Codes, and CCRs.
Covenants, Codes, and Restrictions are put ON THE PROPERTY DEED by the developers. They stay on the deed forever. There is no enforcement of these CCRs possible by local, county, or state law enforcement because they have no force of law. The HOA (Home Owner's Association, if any) CAN enforce the CCRs. They can often levy fines against the property owner, which, if not paid, can be entered as liens on the property.
The State, County, and Local governing bodies CAN grant exemptions to the regulations or laws if they so desire. An HOA probably can NOT add or subtract from the CCRs, but they CAN make new rules if they want to. Whether these new rules will go on the deed is questionable, I don't know.
A buyer can NOT avoid Local, County, or State laws. A buyer CAN avoid HOAs and CCRs. IMO it would be a smart thing to do. I did.
Or you can work to change them....done it and won myself.
Crazyfoe wrote: For those that think public servants are evil for enforcing the laws are only doing so because they got caught. More often than not it’s a neighbor who turned in the offender the public servant is just doing job of enforcing the laws of which are put in place but the very people we all elect.
HOA’s and CC&R’s are not the same they are in fact two different mechanisms of restrictions HOA’s typically being much more stringent. They have electorate body and have greater enforcement power. CC&R’s are up to the other landowners to enforce and sue over. Most have no idea what CC&R’s are and today they are more or less archaic.
A variance to the codes (zoning ordinance) of the jurisdiction you are in is a difficult discretionary permit and just because I want it and the codes prevent it is not justification for it.
Don’t like the laws restricting RV’s talk to Staff. If need be attend a Planning Commission or Zoning Board and/or City Council or Board of Supervisors (county). At the beginning of each meeting there is an open forum to address these boards with whatever the public wants. They are not obligated to respond or delve into the matter but rather direct Staff to address the issue and open a dialog. In the end if you have reasonable adjustments to the current restrictions your level of success is much higher. Coming in with a high and mighty attitude it’s my property or just being difficult doesn’t help either. Regardless what you think about rules and regulations pertaining to private property this isn’t the arena to fight that, stick to your guns about what your overall goal is important. Just handle the situation professionally and with civilly and chances of success are higher. To many times people just don’t want to go through the motions to change the restrictions work w/ City Hall not fight it. In the end the City Council/Board of Supervisors are elected by us, use them to lean on and become sympathetic to your situation. Also, taking photos of all your neighbors for the practice of saying look they all do it…..just stop that’s akin to saying well everyone speeds so why can’t I. Rather take those pictures and come up with reasonable changes to the current ordinances/codes is going to yield much better results.
Personally I’ve got mine on the interior side, covered and well behind a fence. I care what my neighbors think and I know if I don’t want to look at something well I better not do it myself. I’m not a fan of being able to leave an RV or other type in the front yard, street side or on a public street regardless is if was a 300k unit or a piece of junk. There are always people on each side of the spectrum don’t want you to be able to store anything and those who store stuff and their property is an absolute eyesore.
Both HOAs here in NoVa and in San Diego has a set of CC&Rs within the HOA declaration so I would bet in 99% of the cases it is in fact the HOA that enforces these CCRs even tho it appears the OP ran afoul of some zoning or land ordnance which is not a CCR issue. For instance many HOA CCRs have restrictions on the type of fences allowed, but still you have to in some locations get a permit from the town/county and it has their own requirements.
Larry
There are exceptions of course even city's can enforce CC&R's because they are named in the document. But buy in large I stand by what I stated above is the normal not the exception.
Crazyfoe wrote: For those that think public servants are evil for enforcing the laws are only doing so because they got caught. More often than not it’s a neighbor who turned in the offender the public servant is just doing job of enforcing the laws of which are put in place but the very people we all elect.
HOA’s and CC&R’s are not the same they are in fact two different mechanisms of restrictions HOA’s typically being much more stringent. They have electorate body and have greater enforcement power. CC&R’s are up to the other landowners to enforce and sue over. Most have no idea what CC&R’s are and today they are more or less archaic.
A variance to the codes (zoning ordinance) of the jurisdiction you are in is a difficult discretionary permit and just because I want it and the codes prevent it is not justification for it.
Don’t like the laws restricting RV’s talk to Staff. If need be attend a Planning Commission or Zoning Board and/or City Council or Board of Supervisors (county). At the beginning of each meeting there is an open forum to address these boards with whatever the public wants. They are not obligated to respond or delve into the matter but rather direct Staff to address the issue and open a dialog. In the end if you have reasonable adjustments to the current restrictions your level of success is much higher. Coming in with a high and mighty attitude it’s my property or just being difficult doesn’t help either. Regardless what you think about rules and regulations pertaining to private property this isn’t the arena to fight that, stick to your guns about what your overall goal is important. Just handle the situation professionally and with civilly and chances of success are higher. To many times people just don’t want to go through the motions to change the restrictions work w/ City Hall not fight it. In the end the City Council/Board of Supervisors are elected by us, use them to lean on and become sympathetic to your situation. Also, taking photos of all your neighbors for the practice of saying look they all do it…..just stop that’s akin to saying well everyone speeds so why can’t I. Rather take those pictures and come up with reasonable changes to the current ordinances/codes is going to yield much better results.
Personally I’ve got mine on the interior side, covered and well behind a fence. I care what my neighbors think and I know if I don’t want to look at something well I better not do it myself. I’m not a fan of being able to leave an RV or other type in the front yard, street side or on a public street regardless is if was a 300k unit or a piece of junk. There are always people on each side of the spectrum don’t want you to be able to store anything and those who store stuff and their property is an absolute eyesore.
Both HOAs here in NoVa and in San Diego has a set of CC&Rs within the HOA declaration so I would bet in 99% of the cases it is in fact the HOA that enforces these CCRs even tho it appears the OP ran afoul of some zoning or land ordnance which is not a CCR issue. For instance many HOA CCRs have restrictions on the type of fences allowed, but still you have to in some locations get a permit from the town/county and it has their own requirements.
Larry
There are exceptions of course even city's can enforce CC&R's because they are named in the document. But buy in large I stand by what I stated above is the normal not the exception.
O.K. then we have to agree to disagree and I personally saw all the HOA docs here for all my wife's Real Estate deals over almost 20 years and never saw any reference to any county/city enforcement mechanism as was the case back in 1978 when we bought our first house in SD, Ca. The only reference in the HOA and CCRs is that any changes have to conform to existing county/town requirements. I don't believe there is any government that would touch enforcing a HOA CCR if it didn't violate an existing government ordnance or law like the HOA saying chain link fences are not allowed or storage buildings are nor allowed, or limiting what colors a person can paint the trim on their home with which many HOA CCRs do.
ANYWHO the point of my original post to you was your contention that the HOA and CCRs were separate documents/enforcement mechanisms which was FALSE and still is.
The HOA (Home Owners Association) and CCR's(Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions) are totally different critters all together. CCR's are written to protect and obligate the owners (and future owners), of a given piece of property as what they can and cannot do. The purpose is to preserve and protect the value and integrity of the property for its intended use.
Government agencies have nothing whatsoever to do with the enforcement of CCR's unless they own a portion of the property bound by them. The HOA is administrative entity that is in fact created by the CCR's and Bylaws of the community(subject property). CCR's are, when properly written, very enforceable. The enforcement of CCR's can be administered by the HOA or by any property owner in court. If you think you can get around them you are sadly mistaken. CCR's can however be modified but it is a huge PITA that in the real world is next to impossible. {For the record I was a Title Officer/Manager of the Subdivision & Commercial Industrial Department of a Title Insurance Company for 18 years. Been there, done that}.
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