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~DJ~

Boise, Idaho

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Posted: 01/19/12 01:55pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

sleepy wrote:

Brads post proves my thinking in in its simplest form... a person with any training or common sense would use a number one rule in survival skills...just sit down when it got dark... Wait until morning and then continue out of the wilderness.



Yep, that's great in a perfect world. But the world is not perfect nor are the people in it. Keeping a cool head and using common sense when you become lost is not as easy as it sounds. The majority of people will panic. And I'm sure Buzzcut will back me up on this.

Once you panic you can not fight the urge to run. Running in panic mode is an obvious recipe for disaster. That's why I would have went out and got the guy stuck without a flashlight. Not hung up on him!!!!

I never experienced it but I have read of lost victims actually trying to run and hide from their rescuers.


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Buzzcut1

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Posted: 01/19/12 02:15pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DJ

I don't think any of us are saying don't take the technolgy. What we are saying is don't rely on it to get you of of a difficult or bad situation that is not a true life threatening emergency. Spot and PLB's should be used as the very last resort not as seems to happen, be the first option taken. Too many folks with no experience, no tools for existing outside of the city (mental and physical), blindly head into the backcountry and at the first sign of trouble of discomfort dial 911 or activate a beacon.

I have experienced the hide from the rescuers syndrome first hand

We rescued a hypothermic backpacker in the sespe wilderness when we heard his call for help. He was on an outward bound solo. Two days later when the storm broke SAR was searching for him and found our camp. he hid in a tent because he did not want to fail his solo. We brought him out and sent him off with them. We stayed having a good time for another two days

* This post was edited 01/19/12 04:08pm by Buzzcut1 *


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BradW

Mayor of Flat Rock

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Posted: 01/19/12 04:04pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

~DJ~ wrote:

That's why I would have went out and got the guy stuck without a flashlight. Not hung up on him!!!!

I know that guy pretty well. I don't blame the ranger for hanging up on him; I would have too. Some people are just determined to learn everythings the hard way. After she hung up on him, he realized that his cell phone LCD screen put out enough light for him to follow the trail back to the parking lot. Tough love baby! I bet he does a little more planning next time.

Brad


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~DJ~

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Posted: 01/19/12 04:38pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BradW wrote:

~DJ~ wrote:

That's why I would have went out and got the guy stuck without a flashlight. Not hung up on him!!!!

I know that guy pretty well. I don't blame the ranger for hanging up on him; I would have too. Some people are just determined to learn everythings the hard way. After she hung up on him, he realized that his cell phone LCD screen put out enough light for him to follow the trail back to the parking lot. Tough love baby! I bet he does a little more planning next time.

Brad


"Tough Love" Ya, that's a really good motto for a public servant sworn to "protect and serve". Yep, "let him learn the hard way" let him die. That will teach him once and for all!!!!

You know something Brad? I spent 28 years with the Sheriff's Dept and can look myself in the mirror every morning to shave knowing I never refused to help some one in need no matter how stupid they seemed.

I guess that is the difference between you and me. I took my job very very seriously. Because the minute I didn't someone could lose their life.

Speaking of someone caught out with out a flashlight I was dispatched to an 80 year old man stuck out on the bluffs of the Snake River. It was his own pasture land and was out feeding his mules when it got too dark too quick. His wife called and was frantic. No problem, I took my team, scoured the bluffs, found him and escorted him home safe and sound. It was winter, 40 and rain. If he didn't fall off a cliff he would have died of hypothermia.

Sure, I could have said tough love and hung up but how would I feel today?

I took an oath when I joined the Marines and I held myself accountable for that oath. I also took an oath when I joined the Sheriff's Dept. I'm thinking the people I have saved appreciate my convictions!!

* This post was edited 01/19/12 04:48pm by ~DJ~ *

BradW

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Posted: 01/19/12 05:55pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

~DJ~ wrote:

"Tough Love" Ya, that's a really good motto for a public servant sworn to "protect and serve". Yep, "let him learn the hard way" let him die. That will teach him once and for all!!!!


He managed to make back to the parking lot on his own without killing himself. Turned out he didn't need any help at all, he was just looking for the easy way out. What don't kill ya makes you stronger and in his case, a little smarter.

Brad

seldomseensmith

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Posted: 01/19/12 06:08pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Technology Leads To More Into Trouble

This article appeared a while back, but it really sums up the argument against those who think a SPOT or PLB is an acceptable substitute for planning and taking responsibility for poor decision making. I truly believe that SOME folks (not most of the participants here) are just plain lazy and have become too dependent on toys and gadgets versus using old fashioned good judgment.

There is no substitute for preparedness and experience. I traveled extensively for years in remote backcountry settings before SPOT or PLBs ever became available, and on more than one occasion got myself into a pickle that required self-reliance to get myself back on track. Today I carry a PLB only because it would be foolish not to take advantage of the ability to summon help in a life or death situation.

That said, if you spend time alone outdoors then you must accept the risk that sometimes bad things happen. If you are lucky and have taken the appropriate precautions, you might survive the experience. Otherwise you pays your money and you takes your chances.


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~DJ~

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Posted: 01/19/12 06:19pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BradW wrote:

~DJ~ wrote:

"Tough Love" Ya, that's a really good motto for a public servant sworn to "protect and serve". Yep, "let him learn the hard way" let him die. That will teach him once and for all!!!!


He managed to make back to the parking lot on his own without killing himself. Turned out he didn't need any help at all, he was just looking for the easy way out. What don't kill ya makes you stronger and in his case, a little smarter.

Brad


He also could have just panicked and died. Then how would have your "tough love" girlfriend would have felt?

~DJ~

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Posted: 01/19/12 06:33pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

seldomseensmith wrote:

Technology Leads To More Into Trouble

This article appeared a while back, but it really sums up the argument against those who think a SPOT or PLB is an acceptable substitute for planning and taking responsibility for poor decision making. I truly believe that SOME folks (not most of the participants here) are just plain lazy and have become too dependent on toys and gadgets versus using old fashioned good judgment.

There is no substitute for preparedness and experience. I traveled extensively for years in remote backcountry settings before SPOT or PLBs ever became available, and on more than one occasion got myself into a pickle that required self-reliance to get myself back on track. Today I carry a PLB only because it would be foolish not to take advantage of the ability to summon help in a life or death situation.

That said, if you spend time alone outdoors then you must accept the risk that sometimes bad things happen. If you are lucky and have taken the appropriate precautions, you might survive the experience. Otherwise you pays your money and you takes your chances.


I give up. I'm done with this subject. "I've done this. I've done that". Yeah, right. Lucky is all. WHO HERE HAS HAD A BURST APPENDIX HOURS FROM THEIR TRUCK AND SURVIVED ONLY ON THEIR EXPERIENCE AND EQUIPMENT?

LMFAO You're dead in an hour no matter how much you know or how much experience you have.

A SPOT should no way suffice for experience/knowledge but scoffing it could cost you your life. You can lead a horse to water................

BradW

Mayor of Flat Rock

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Posted: 01/19/12 06:34pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Not likely and didn't happen. Much more likely he would get killed crossing 441 in Gatlinburg going after a corndog at Fannie Farkle's.

seldomseensmith

Flagstaff, AZ

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Posted: 01/19/12 06:43pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

~DJ~ wrote:

seldomseensmith wrote:

Technology Leads To More Into Trouble

This article appeared a while back, but it really sums up the argument against those who think a SPOT or PLB is an acceptable substitute for planning and taking responsibility for poor decision making. I truly believe that SOME folks (not most of the participants here) are just plain lazy and have become too dependent on toys and gadgets versus using old fashioned good judgment.

There is no substitute for preparedness and experience. I traveled extensively for years in remote backcountry settings before SPOT or PLBs ever became available, and on more than one occasion got myself into a pickle that required self-reliance to get myself back on track. Today I carry a PLB only because it would be foolish not to take advantage of the ability to summon help in a life or death situation.

That said, if you spend time alone outdoors then you must accept the risk that sometimes bad things happen. If you are lucky and have taken the appropriate precautions, you might survive the experience. Otherwise you pays your money and you takes your chances.


I give up. I'm done with this subject. "I've done this. I've done that". Yeah, right. Lucky is all. WHO HERE HAS HAD A BURST APPENDIX HOURS FROM THEIR TRUCK AND SURVIVED ONLY ON THEIR EXPERIENCE AND EQUIPMENT?

LMFAO You're dead in an hour no matter how much you know or how much experience you have.

A SPOT should no way suffice for experience/knowledge but scoffing it could cost you your life. You can lead a horse to water................


DJ,

I'm not sure I get it. I basically agree with you - in fact I state very clearly that not taking advantage of a PLB or SPOT would be foolish. But you make it sound like I'm arguing against it, when all I'm saying is that you should not rely exclusively on these gadgets to save your life......

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