I agree there is a difference between what people want and what they are willing to pay for. So I think the best one could do is resolve the top complaints about what is being produced now.
You don't need a focus group for that. Looking at internet forums, the top two issues that can't be resolved just by reading the owners manual are problems with the running gear (mostly tires) and leaks that develop within 2 to 3 years.
The former can be resolved very easily. There are components readily available that are up to the task. The latter is a little more difficult. Right now, they use a powered tool to shove a screw through some putty tape into an area that has no hole. Putty tape only seals out for a couple of years. If they actually drilled holes and put caulk in the holes (something like Proflex RV), the screws would not leak. That is very labor intensive and would cost thousands of dollars. They would also have the caulk the edges of anything that uses putty tape for a seal. I wonder if using Eternabond double stick would resolve the issue. That would only add $500 to $600 to the typical unit.
Most campers are an impulse purchase. Designed to appeal to the customer at time of purchase, not during usage.
Besides who says they're aren't any quality manufacturers? Teton and Carriage both built better than the normal quality unit.
Can you imagine the CEO of a struggling manufacturer standing up in front of a shareholders meeting and saying "We want to start building a high quality unit!"
'03 GMC 4500 Topkick with Duramax/Allison
'04 36' McKenzie Medallion triple slide
Cabover kayak racks w/18' touring kayaks.
Bicycle carrier on the front with a street bike & a mountain bike
Snowbird W/Ohio camper dock
Traveler II wrote: They are good tools, but not great tool.
That is the key. To use this type of data as a TOOL. Not the total picture. But as part of the process to build a better product.
I would offer they should use better mass production processes. Example, design and build plug and play wiring harnesses. More expensive at the start. But saves big money on the production floor. Lay the harness in and connect everything up by plugging in. Also more reliable, easier troubleshooting, and better looking result.
And while they're at it, employ more wireless technology to operate some systems, without wires at all. Many products today have a broad use of Blue tooth technology to eliminate costly wiring systems. If they can do that in Autos, ships, helocopters, airplanes, etc., they can do it in RV's. Think economies of scale.
How about some real built in Quality Control? So instead of doing something wrong and undoing it and doing in over again. Do it right the first time. Make suppliers live up to the manufacturers criteria for quality, design, manufacture, and reliability. Review/reduce their payouts for warranty repairs.
Look at the above as ways to cut overall costs, and to increase profits, and to enhance reputation and good will. And do this before some foreign company does this and takes this industry away from the USA.
Then review the needs for a more robust, reliable roofing system.
Put good reliable tires on new trailers.
Employ women on design teams for kitchens, bathrooms and do interior storage and decorating.
'12 F350 SB, CC, SRW, 6.7 PSD, 3.55 RAR, 6 spd auto, Ultimate Lariat pkg
2011 Open Range 393RLS 14,250 GVWR
Pullrite Super Glide 18K
Traveler II wrote: They are good tools, but not great tool.
That is the key. To use this type of data as a TOOL. Not the total picture. But as part of the process to build a better product.
I would offer they should use better mass production processes. Example, design and build plug and play wiring harnesses. More expensive at the start. But saves big money on the production floor. Lay the harness in and connect everything up by plugging in. Also more reliable, easier troubleshooting, and better looking result.
And while they're at it, employ more wireless technology to operate some systems, without wires at all. Many products today have a broad use of Blue tooth technology to eliminate costly wiring systems. If they can do that in Autos, ships, helocopters, airplanes, etc., they can do it in RV's. Think economies of scale.
How about some real built in Quality Control? So instead of doing something wrong and undoing it and doing in over again. Do it right the first time. Make suppliers live up to the manufacturers criteria for quality, design, manufacture, and reliability. Review/reduce their payouts for warranty repairs.
Look at the above as ways to cut overall costs, and to increase profits, and to enhance reputation and good will. And do this before some foreign company does this and takes this industry away from the USA.
Then review the needs for a more robust, reliable roofing system.
Put good reliable tires on new trailers.
Employ women on design teams for kitchens, bathrooms and do interior storage and decorating.
Why stop with the wiring harness? The whole trailer could be modular. One guy implied that being "hand built" would equal better quality; hell, that's the problem =now=. They're basically hand-built, but the pay scale is such that speed is more important than quality. Using a hole-saw to cut access for wiring and plumbing is great, but that takes so much more time than grabbing your hammer off your belt and just bashing a hole in that cabinet. Gotta get that extra unit, or two, out the door =today=, don't ya know? I agree with all your other points, too, especially about the decor. Most of what I've seen is downright hideous.
Lyle
2002 GMC Sierra 2500 HD Duramax Crew Cab 4x4
Banks Bullet Tuner and Monster Exhaust
B&W Turnover Ball with 5th Wheel Companion
2004 Komfort 25FSG Fifth Wheel
1936 John Deere Model A
International Flying Farmers 55 Year Member
Amen, but I'd settle for reliable quality being scalable with price. Right now it doesn't - our chances of getting a high-priced lemon 5th wheel aren't much less than with a mid-level or entry-level 5'vr. Paying 50% more does not cut the chance of getting a lemon by 33%, or even by 20%.
gbopp wrote: It's an interesting idea but, like Tom Holsinger said, RVers are too diversified to accept a 'one size fits all' RV.
Personally I think the RV manufacturers should concentrate on QUALITY.
In my experience this would be a top choice for universal appeal.
V shaped nose travel trailer. Actual Length 23' to 28' ( bunk bed type ) feet overall. Call a 23 a 23 , not a 21 as is the current practice. My buddy bought a 23 at the RV show and it is 27.5 actual.
Welded Aluminum Frame. 225/75 R 16 ( or 15" )load range E tires.
Disc Brakes.
50+ gallons fresh water, 45+ grey, 45+ black.
Trailer height 9 feet 11 inches so it fits under a 10 foot garage door. Width overall 8 feet 6 inches. Trailer shorter but wider to get the most space with the safest handling. No slide out gives the best rigidity and maximum trailer life.
Empty weight about 4800 # on the axles, and 500# on the hitch.
Water tank in front ( under the bed ) so full the nose is 800 - 1000 # for the best handling. Increased distance between the axles to improve directional stability in a crosswind.
Walk around queen bed ( memory foam ) in front with lift up storage underneath.
Two 24" square skylights plus 3 standard flip up 12" skylights.
Slightly oversize dinette table that converts easily to a bed with High Quality Memory Foam cushions. Large window at dinette.
At least 2 GC-2 6 volt batteries in series.
Optional : 4 GC-2 batteries with an switched inverter that operates off the second two batteries. Inverters draw current even without a load on them.
V Nose houses the propane tanks, batteries,below, and storage space above ( bbq, lawn chairs, coleman lantern, ). Exterior door is the only access to this space.
In the shorter versions a half ton pickup ( that all these newbies want to use ) will pull it and stop it, safely. This is a function of the aerodynamics, aluminum frame, spread axles, and disc brakes.
Real men will continue to use their SRW HD 2500 Duramax, Powerstroke, or Cummins. Safer yet.
I like the idea of the V nose housing the tanks, batteries, and externally accessable storage. It could be sloped somewhat and would probably increase mileage by about a half mpg.
Building the perfect RV, the idea itself is impossible. Since building the perfect RV would include a compromise of different ideas it would therefore not be "perfect" for anyone.
However, I do think that RV could be built using better materials as FSD suggests, the only drawback is this;
IF someone was going to build an "aircraft quality" RV, IS the general populace going pay "aircraft quality" prices?
I think the composite idea is interesting. I work at the company that builds the Boeing 787 composite forward fuselage (41 section). Basically the nose to the end of first class. I see all the quality controls, massive mandrels to wrap the 1/4 wide tape around many many times, the massive autoclaves to bake the hole section and the clean rooms that are as clean as a hospital operating room. I simply don't believe we could afford one.
How about asking groups of manufacturers to come together and brainstorm the best of their ideas. Say for example, one set of slides that are all used on the different manufacturers. Or cabinets, modular sets that are sturdily constructed with quality products and used in many units, not just one or two.
It's expensive for companies to keep changing little things so that theirs is just a little different than others, and generally the more often things change, the more problems there is after the initial sale. Mass production will make it cheaper, and the consumer will be able to go almost anywhere to get new parts where they are available for longer shelf lives.
Mike and Carole
2007 Snowbird 9'6" Super Slide
2005 16.6 Double Eagle
2000 F350 7.3 SC 4X4
previously 8'10" Snowbird Camper
2006 Triple E Regency 27 foot SXL SOLD!
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