Bet you never new the power of the pen you have at a keystroke.
As you can see from various posts, the HR brand has some very loyal followers and I can be included in that loyalty. I believe you will find the product you are considering will serve you well for many years to come. The fit and finish will make you proud and the overall support you receive from Monaco LLC will be adequate for your needs.
What I can say though, is if this is your first RV purchase, purchase a good comprehensive tool kit regardless of the brand and enjoy the freedom we all do. Life in an RV is always an experience and can be interesting at times.
Please do not let the rest of this 5 page chatter deter you from purchasing what you and your significant other feel that would enhance their quality of life and lifestyle.
Good luck with your purchase and decision and GO FOR IT -- you will not regret it most times.
Well it is not that HR has a lot of loyal owners. It is just the human nature to defend what you own. If you didn't like what you own, you never would have bought that brand. It is the same with Newmar, Country Coach, Travel Supreme etc etc owners. If you bash what they have, they are not going to like it and they are going to respond.
But know RVers are a funny group. I used to belong to motorcycle clubs and everybody used to get along really good. They would protect each other. If you broke down others would stop to help. What I have noticed about RVers is that most of them are more into doing their own thing. I have belonged to clubs and there is a lot of disagreement, and I personally don't like when there is too much bickering. Also I have noticed that some that have high end coaches are not very friendly. And that is really too bad because I have seen in these RV private preserves where they have nice club houses where the motorhome owners that are there, they stay within their coaches and don't go out to meet other RVers to socialize. I can say there are some, but not too many. That to me has been the biggest disappointment of RVing. Just read most of the posts in this forum and very few get along. Most like to bash other brands of coaches, and you can tell it is not a friendly group of people. Wish it would change.
2002 Gulf Stream Scenic Cruiser
330 HP Caterpillar
3000 Allison Transmission
Neway Freightliner chassis
2013 Honda CR-V EX
Boy did this one ever end up going sideways,
Have to agree with what DHart said.
We've been doing our research on looking for a DP for just over a year, have looked hard at 4 manufactures and have to say that there;s some things about everyone of them that I don't like how they do or build a portion of it.
Even a quick review of the commented NHTSA recall data shows that HR is no different than NEWMAR in the numbers of recalls. Most recalls for all manufacturers have been the result of third party equipment which is incorporated in coaches across the field of ALL manufacturers. The only conclusion which can be drawn from this review is the posts from the NHTSA were a deliberate attempt to smear HR and thereby devalue ALL HR coaches.
The review of the Make,Model and year of the coach owned by the perpetrator of this fabrication shows that his model, a 2001 Newmar Mountainaire has no fewer than 5 outstanding recalls. The 2011 Vacationer HR noted by the OP shows "0" recalls to date. A quick review of all years of the Navistar built Vacationers, shows "0" recalls to date.
The equivalent model in the Newmar line would be the gas powered Canyon Star or Baystar. Model years 2007 through 2011 show multiple recalls on these Newmar models. The conclusion that could be made from this comparison could only lead one to believe that the HR product is superior to Newmar, based solely on NHTSA recall data.
That conclusion would of course be BALONEY because NHTSA does not concern itself with Build Quality or "Bang for the Buck" The only thing they are concerned with is SAFETY for the general public, not whether they got a good deal.
Therefore Mr. TECHWRITER please restrain yourself in finding fault where none exists. Certainly there are enough problems aplenty for all of us who Own, Love and Hate these wonderful toys, without deliberatly publishing disinformation that can mis-inform or mislead the unwarry.
Lest we all forget the original question of this string was "Holiday Rambler quality level".
Charles.... excellent anaylsis. Clearly confirms that Techwriter has irresponsibly smeared the HR brand. SHAME on Techwriter for this.
All of this aside, as an actual owner of a 2011 HR Endeavor, with first-hand ownership experience of this coach, I can easily state that we are totally thrilled with the design, build, fit, finish, and performance of our Navistar/Monaco HR coach. I would have NO qualms whatsoever, combined with first-hand examination, in purchasing any new HR product. Current Holiday Rambler production is good stuff, in my view.
Why do DP folk think it is better to spend their hard earneds on a 10 year old DP with all OLD appliances and water damage, sunstroke and old tires and think that is so much better than all new appliances, new fasteners, Better chassis and no $250 lube jobs and $80 air filters. No water problems, no anti-microbe stuff to add and no need to Pee in a seperate tank to get her going. Sorry mate, I'll take a GAS chassis every time. I change my own oil, do my own maintenance and fuel up at any place I can fit in. Oh yes, Diesel juice STINKS. Can't be good for you, it has DIE right there in the name. SO THERE!
Charles, I was a little shocked at your posts. There is nothing wrong with gas units as there is nothing wrong with diesel either. I have not seen the awful mess at diesel pumps that you describe. I've seen messy 'gas' stations and a few bad diesel stations but not in abundance. Actually, I don't find diesel fumes unappealing. I don't add anti-microbe anything in my fuel and no problems so far.
My tank doesn't foam too bad. If I slow the flow towards the end I don't overflow the tank. Honestly, I think only once or twice in nearly 50,000 miles I have had a drop or two come out of the fuel neck. I DON'T SPILL fuel.
Mostly diesels are purchased because gas coaches can not carry 40,000+ lbs., you need a powerful diesel engine for that. So, everyone needs can be different.
2008 Monaco Dynasty, 42.2 ft., 4 slides, 425 hp clean-air Cummins diesel
2013 Honda CR-V EXL, AWD, w/Nav, SMI Air Force One vacuum-assisted braking
Well, I have been very busy buying a new vacationer from HR. It was last years model and we were able to trade our Cardinal fifth wheel in on it.
I could bash 6 years of ownership in this Cardinal 5er because of poor workmanship/quality too. But, I won't (anymore).
It was interesting to me that my question about one gas brand MH largely switched to these big diesel rigs that are a totally different animal. I know HR is the same, but (no offense intended) I had no interest in these high end diesel rigs.
Thanks so much for your comments.
PS: Filling my Ford pickup diesel nearly always involves careful sidestepping to avoid previous diesel spills. Especially in truck stops.
2011 Holiday Rambler Vacationer Class A
2004 Suzuki Grand Vitara toad.
1994 Weekender 9.5' truck camper
2006 Ford F350 PSD 6.0 4x4
1990 18' Seaswirl boat
I disagree that techwriter is a troll. All he is pointing out are facts and RVers should learn from the experiences of others. But I will say that just because a company has made some mistakes does not mean they have to be condemned for ever. If they correct their problems, then everything should be OK. Now I do know that in around 2002 Monaco bought out a lot of companies, like HR, Beaver and Safari. This companies almost brought Monaco to its knees with the problems they had with their coaches and so many recalls were made that they had to build a big repair facility in Wildwood, Florida and they had so many that they would use the old building to get the over flow. It was called Covenant RV shop. I was there on some maintanance issues I had on my coach and I saw several HR that were there and they were changing out the front I beam that was on recall according to the owner, who became close friends with us.
If Navistar has corrected all this problems, then we should be glad that there are still companies in the RV industry that do care, and that better quality control inspectors are doing their job.
The picture of the Endeavor posted is showing a very nice coach. Few things I don't care about, like the awning, but that is just me.
Ray, I would agree with you but, I do believe I've seen him on here blasting Monaco/HR in other threads. Quality has been beat to death on the forum and as always the summation remains: "it's a house on wheels and given the state of roads in the good 'ol USA, unless it's a Prevost, Marathon, or UP scale coach, it's going to get beat to death".
WE are a Monaco owner. I was at Lazydays this week and looked at a few HR's. 2012 models. I was impressed by the new ergonomic dash. The great layout and other improvements. One Endeavour had a residential fridge and 4 of the biggest 6 volts I have ever seen. More like forklift batteries. The battery cables were the heaviest in any MH that I have looked at. HUGE. Same for the industrial connectors. The new MCD front shade is great. I liked the fit and finish. The one thing that bothers me is the Navistar engine. I have never liked them and for me this would be a deal breaker. I remember the poor guys who bought units with the Mercedes engines. You cannot give those away.
* This post was
edited 02/05/12 05:37am by moisheh *