DHart wrote: Today's coaches are all new animals. The Class A coach brands that survived the last five years have emerged with even better designed and built products...
Four your sake, I hope you're right. HR recall data since 2009 looks promising.
I disagree that techwriter is a troll. All he is pointing out are facts and RVers should learn from the experiences of others. But I will say that just because a company has made some mistakes does not mean they have to be condemned for ever. If they correct their problems, then everything should be OK. Now I do know that in around 2002 Monaco bought out a lot of companies, like HR, Beaver and Safari. This companies almost brought Monaco to its knees with the problems they had with their coaches and so many recalls were made that they had to build a big repair facility in Wildwood, Florida and they had so many that they would use the old building to get the over flow. It was called Covenant RV shop. I was there on some maintanance issues I had on my coach and I saw several HR that were there and they were changing out the front I beam that was on recall according to the owner, who became close friends with us.
If Navistar has corrected all this problems, then we should be glad that there are still companies in the RV industry that do care, and that better quality control inspectors are doing their job.
The picture of the Endeavor posted is showing a very nice coach. Few things I don't care about, like the awning, but that is just me.
2002 Gulf Stream Scenic Cruiser
330 HP Caterpillar
3000 Allison Transmission
Neway Freightliner chassis
2013 Honda CR-V EX
Aventa II
FMCA member
Why do DP folk think it is better to spend their hard earneds on a 10 year old DP with all OLD appliances and water damage, sunstroke and old tires and think that is so much better than all new appliances, new fasteners, Better chassis and no $250 lube jobs and $80 air filters. No water problems, no anti-microbe stuff to add and no need to Pee in a seperate tank to get her going. Sorry mate, I'll take a GAS chassis every time. I change my own oil, do my own maintenance and fuel up at any place I can fit in. Oh yes, Diesel juice STINKS. Can't be good for you, it has DIE right there in the name. SO THERE!
CharlesOK wrote: Why do DP folk think it is better to spend their hard earneds on a 10 year old DP with all OLD appliances and water damage, sunstroke and old tires and think that is so much better than all new appliances, new fasteners, Better chassis and no $250 lube jobs and $80 air filters. No water problems, no anti-microbe stuff to add and no need to Pee in a seperate tank to get her going. Sorry mate, I'll take a GAS chassis every time. I change my own oil, do my own maintenance and fuel up at any place I can fit in. Oh yes, Diesel juice STINKS. Can't be good for you, it has DIE right there in the name. SO THERE!
Gosh Charles, why don't you tell us how you really feel?
CharlesOK wrote: Why do DP folk think it is better to spend their hard earneds on a 10 year old DP with all OLD appliances and water damage, sunstroke and old tires and think that is so much better than all new appliances, new fasteners, Better chassis and no $250 lube jobs and $80 air filters. No water problems, no anti-microbe stuff to add and no need to Pee in a seperate tank to get her going. Sorry mate, I'll take a GAS chassis every time. I change my own oil, do my own maintenance and fuel up at any place I can fit in. Oh yes, Diesel juice STINKS. Can't be good for you, it has DIE right there in the name. SO THERE!
Now wait a minute CharlesOK. Now you are starting to not make any sense on what you are talking about. I have had both and the difference between a gasoline coach and a diesel is like day vs night. The diesel is superior in all aspects of the game. Durability is five time more then a gasoline chassis. Sure it costs more to change oil, but those are heavy duty engines that will out last you if you do proper maintenance on those engines. The ride between leaf springs in rough vs the air ride on diesel chassis. The torque on the engines, there is no comparison.
With gas prices now, not to mention what diesel costs, most of the time, my unit is either in storage or siting long-term in a nice warm park, next to all the other parked units. I guess I was lucky, gas was $1.30 per gallon all during the 90's when we logged over 100K miles. In those days, I had small stuff and rolled the odometer liberally. Now, gas or diesel, they all have the same 15K A/C, only 2 makes of Reefer, and all the same TV's and furnaces. The point is, any person who is not Rock-star level or LOADED can't justify $250K plus when $90K will get a real nice MOHO like the OP asked about. If you just GOTTA have a diesel, the only ones that make sense are based on Sprinters and get 18+ MPG. Urea tanks, LOL, you gotta be kidding me. I'm never going to wear out a gas chassis in this lifetime and the 3 HR's I have bought have all been winners. Check my profile, some of the other stuff I bought, was junk. I even owned a small diesel once and absolutly hated standing in diesel mess while I burped the tank to get more than 1/2 tank of fuel when the foam would shut off the supply. Did you ever wonder why there is always a greasy mess under the diesel pumps at the station, You guessed it the last 10 guys slopped out while they were filling to because the fuel foams and refuses to go in the tank. Next time you talk to a Friend with a DP, ask him why he always carries at least 2 fresh fuel filters. Sooner or later there will be anerobic organisms growing in the tank or in the gas station tanks and it WILL stop you along the road while you get out and get under to change the fuel filter and pray that it runs long enough to get home or to the shop where they will charge you $125+ per hour while they drop, drain, and clean your tanks and throw away 100 gallons of Diesel which cost over $4 per gallon. No thanks. JMHO
After taking over HR, Monaco worked to consolidate product lines and the HR models became clones of Monaco models. And Navistar has owned Monaco since, I believe 2008 or 2009. HR models need to be evaluated from a recent experience basis, largely in the same light as Monaco models, which are essentially the same coaches. Harping on HR recalls which predate the current line of Monaco built coaches borders on trolling in my book. Recalls and problems can be found on any brand you can name at every price point.
2011 HR Endeavor 43DFT with a 2012 Chevy Avalanche LTZ "toad".
Oh yes, everyones dream, 45 footer, 12 airbags and 38,000 GVW running down the road so that it can sit next to a 32 footer with 2 slides and leaf springs and 4 airbags. No agro here with those who can afford it, I just get tired of all the folk who demean a smaller gas coach. It is just another example of the "Mine is bigger than yours" syndrome. My philosophy is "Each to his own". There is plenty of room in this Nation's campgrounds for all of us. HR was and still is one of the best manufacturers that ever tried to make one of our traveling artworks. A nice new Vacationer on a NEW Ford chassis with all new appliances will give many years of Happy Camping. Old motorhomes are like old shoes, probably got many more miles left and may have been top grade when new, but they will always be old and getting older. To the OP, buy the new one, enjoy the process and make her your own, Learn on a new one and then if your able, buy one of the Top End DP units when you know what your doing. Or, go on enjoying what you bought at first. After all it is all just Camping anyway. Walmart sells tents for less than 100 bucks.
DHart wrote: After taking over HR, Monaco worked to consolidate product lines and the HR models became clones of Monaco models. And Navistar has owned Monaco since, I believe 2008 or 2009. HR models need to be evaluated from a recent experience basis, largely in the same light as Monaco models, which are essentially the same coaches. Harping on HR recalls which predate the current line of Monaco built coaches borders on trolling in my book. Recalls and problems can be found on any brand you can name at every price point.
DHart, you are absolutely correct that any brand of coach can have recalls, and actually that is good thing if there is a problem. I have never seen a coach company that is perfect. They all will have a bad on every so often. The important thing is to buy from a company that will stand behind their product, and now that we had the recession a lot of them were tightening their belts.
I still say that all companies make different levels of quality coaches. If you get an entry level coach, it can be a trouble free coach, but the quality of the materials used in the interior decors and the paint jobs are just not the same as the flagship coaches of that particular company. You buy one of their top coaches, and the greater percentage of the time you will get a fairly well made coach. So I am a firm believer that you get what you pay for. I am glad that Navistar has taken the step to improve the old Monaco coaches. Lot of worried Monaco owners when a truck company took over an RV industry, and I didn't blame them. But it seems everything is working out just fine.
Diesel does cost more then gasoline, but if you want torque, air ride, no noise of the engine, longevity of the whole chassis, then it is well worth the extra cost.
And it really should not cost more, because diesel is not a refined fuel like gasoline, but the oil companies have us right where they want us to be.
TechWriter: I'm in the market to buy and I have been following closely the complaints from owners of all the DP's and I wouldn't put Monaco/Holiday Rambler high on the complaints list. Some manufacturer's (one in particular) has real problems some of which they don't know if they even have a fix for yet combined with poor quality in general that I would put at the top of the "poor quality" list but they sell like hotcakes.
I did have another look at Holiday Rambler as before I ordered my Country Coach the Camelot was my second choice at the time. My only problem with them now is it is the same Camelot for sale now that it was three years ago. How about a new front end at least?
Adam
2009 Allegro Bus 36QSP (Sold March 2011)
Dream of the day when I can get back RVing.
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