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Open Roads Forum  >  RV Pet Stop

 > This is very strange.

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AZPops

Wherever the Job takes us...

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Posted: 02/05/12 08:43pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It's gotta be the Carrots! Personally, Me n' Harlee wouldn't "touch" the stuff! May be try a Jumbone like Pops gets me n' Harlee!

Calvin

* This post was last edited 02/06/12 02:25am by AZPops *   View edit history

Pawz4me

North Carolina

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Posted: 02/06/12 03:37am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dturm wrote:

Aggression with high protein diets

Do a google search and you'll find alot of subjective evidence and very sparce conclusive evidence. In practice, I have found that dogs with aggressive tendencies do better on lower protein diets.

Just a thought.


Good thought, but a check of the guaranteed analysis for both foods on Natura's website reveals that the protein content is the same -- 21 percent protein in both foods. As expected, the fat content is a little different, 7 percent in the low-fat food versus 11 percent in the grain free. But I don't think that would make a behavioral difference.


Me and the DH
Two boys and two dogs (and two cats who prefer to stay home)
2008 Forest River Georgetown 350DS (bunkhouse model)
2001 Honda CR-V

chrisnpat

Lake Villa, Il.

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Posted: 02/06/12 08:11am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hmmmmm DH went to Feed store this morning to get the reg. California Natural Low fat
food, and the girl told him he was the fourth person who has came back and said after they switched to the Grain Free, there dog had some behavior problems, which they never had.
She told him some customers said there dogs seemed nervous, antsy, or more aggressive. that's exactly how mine have been acting. They also thought as Dr Doug said that it was the additional protein.

GRRRR makes me angry that any co. would put more or different things in their food without doing there home work. i know I'm guilty too but I thought if the low fat was good for them the Grain Free would have been better. Guess I'm to trusting.

@ Fred; Maggie is 10 and Dudley is around 6, we think. @ Corgi-Traveler both have been fixed, but that was a thought with Dudley, because he was a stray and just neuterd before we got him, but we have also had him for a couple years now.

Now Im a little concerned about giving them the first formula again. GRRRR.

@POps.......they Love their Carrots,some times I mix a teaspoon of plain Yogurt (low fat) with them, they eat that better than there food.
Maggie has a sensitive tummy, so we have learned not to give her anything else in treats, I'm tried of trying to clean up the messes, of anything that doesn't agree with her. LOL

I guess a lesson learned, Don't fix it if it isn't broke.


Christine and Patrick
Dudley and Summer Time and Now Sebastian
Katie Bug and Maggie Mays at Rainbow Bridge
miss u sweet baby's.....

chrisnpat

Lake Villa, Il.

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Posted: 02/06/12 10:36am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Pawz4me...... I saw that to, but after what happen this morning at the Feed store, I'm more in-cline to think its like Rockhillmanor found out, that the Lables are not to true to whats really in the food.

dturm

Munster, IN

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Posted: 02/06/12 11:40am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Also is could be the combination of amino acids, not just the total protein. One nutritional method of treating hyperactivity and aggression is to ADD tryptophan.

Quote:

GRRRR makes me angry that any co. would put more or different things in their food without doing there home work. i know I'm guilty too but I thought if the low fat was good for them the Grain Free would have been better. Guess I'm to trusting.


Losing battle. The internet adds another whole level of hype with little evidence. Choose carefully.

Doug, DVM


Doug & Sandy
Jill (12yr old Golden)
Henry our camping cat
2008 Southwind
2009 Honda CRV


Check out blog.rv.net

rockhillmanor

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Posted: 02/06/12 12:05pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

You all know I'm a natural OCD dog food buyer, but along with that comes the fact that these natural dog food companies seem to insist on putting TONS of various herbs in these dog foods. aghhh!

Take a good long look at what herbs are on the label of the food you are buying and then look them up as to what they do and or can cause.
All herbs are not good, many have side effects to certain people and animals. I have even found herbs in these dog foods that are mood elevators.

Remember the herb ingredients are not regulated and/or tested. There are a couple of herbs that set my seizure dog off. Took me months to figure that one out until I itemized and compared each and every ingredient. BTW same food same company....they changed manufacturing plant and changed the ingredients. No label alert and they are not required to do so.

Yup they all rallied about no corn, no soy, no animal fats. And we all including myself ran to them thinking this IS the way to go.

BUT IMHO, JMHO no one in the industry is addressing the addition of large quantities of these herbs. Many owners finally found with diabetic dogs that the addition of all the 'healthy fruits' was adding increased sugar to the diet and causing problems.

Ohhh to go back to the the days of our parents dog food choices......
Strong Heart Dog Food. They had only 2 choices to make:
Beef or Horse Meat!
And my last dog as a child lived to be 18!

* This post was edited 02/06/12 12:12pm by rockhillmanor *


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned,
so as to have the life that is waiting for us".


Code2High

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Posted: 02/06/12 01:03pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If you want control of what's in your dogs' food, you have to make it yourself. Ditto your food. Even then, you have to look at ingredients and sourcing. If you're buying grain fed meat, you're buying meat that comes from animals that ate GMO "Round Up Ready" corn and soy. Which was of course.... sprayed very liberally with round-up, and guess where the round-up ended up? Just because the plant is more resistant to the stuff, doesn't make it any better for us or our dogs. Happy Monday!

Of course, if you're feeding corn or soy directly then on top of meat that's been produced by animals eating round up on their grains, you're feeding the same stuff directly. Something to consider.

Twenty-two percent isn't a particularly high protein content. Taste of the Wild is 32 percent. I know a rescue boarding kennel that takes only dogs that were rescued, usually straight out of the shelter. Many have behavioral issues, of course, and some stay for days but others stay for months. They all get better mentally while they're there. I know a lot of other people who feed TOTW or similar foods that are half again as much protein as this food we're discussing, and who don't have issues with aggression. I feed TOTW and raw meat or 95 percent meat canned food, and my dogs are happy go lucky idiots..... including the one that was a biter when she came into the family.

I know that Burt Ward (played Robin in Batman on tv) who runs Gentle Giants rescue, has a food out also, by the same name. He harps about not giving "high" protein. That food is 22 percent.

So while I can see where if you had an aggressive dog you might not want to go with a "high protein" food, or it might be worth trying something lower, 22 percent wouldn't seem to me to be in that category.

Which is to say, I'll buy that it may be the food, but I have a hard time with the idea that two unrelated dogs both happen to respond that way to what isn't a very high level of protein, let alone lots of different dogs in different families. That doesn't make sense.


susan

Fuzzy Wuzzy was a wabbit, Fuzzy Wuzzy had a dandelion habit! RIP little Wuz... don't go far.


Pawz4me

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Posted: 02/06/12 01:05pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dturm wrote:

Also is could be the combination of amino acids, not just the total protein. One nutritional method of treating hyperactivity and aggression is to ADD tryptophan.

Quote:

GRRRR makes me angry that any co. would put more or different things in their food without doing there home work. i know I'm guilty too but I thought if the low fat was good for them the Grain Free would have been better. Guess I'm to trusting.


Losing battle. The internet adds another whole level of hype with little evidence. Choose carefully.

Doug, DVM


Personally . . . I'm not a fan of grain-free foods for dogs for several reasons.

First, every dog I've tried on a grain-free food has visibly lost body condition/muscle tone.

Second, I'm not convinced swapping out grains for potatoes, peas or tapioca is any kind of improvement, other than for those relatively few dogs who have a true allergy to grains. And note that I do in fact have one of those relatively rare dogs and I still don't like grain-free foods. My guy is only allergic to wheat, so he can handle foods with corn or rice just fine.

Third, I'm highly suspicious of the fact that all the dog food manufacturers jumped on the grain-free bandwagon right about the time grain prices were going through the roof. I'm guessing they were able to switch to potatoes (probably less expensive for them than grains), convince consumers the grain-free foods were somehow better, and thus charge them more money. Which of course meant more profit for the food manufacturers. Now I don't know that for sure, but it seems a likely scenario to me.

rockhillmanor

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Posted: 02/06/12 01:18pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

California Natural lamb ~low fat VS California Natural lamb grain free
Each one of these products has 2 analysis.
Nutrient Analysis & Guaranteed analysis

LOW FAT LAMB
CRUDE PROTEIN 21.06 %
Crude Fat (Max) 9.0 %

Crude Protein (Min) 21.0 %
Crude Fat (Min) 7.0 %



GRAIN FREE
CRUDE PROTEIN 25.1 %
CRUDE FAT 13.5 %

Crude Protein (Min) 21.0 %
Crude Fat (Min) 11.0 %

7% fat up to 13.5% in the grain free is enough difference to put my liver problem dog into a coma!!

Interesting to see the disparity in the available fats in the food when the grain is removed. But if you read how dog food labels list ingredients it makes perfect sense.

Nutrient Analysis
"Commonly referred to as Typical Nutrient Analysis (NA), this describes the nutrient content that a specific pet food formula is expected to achieve based on data from the formula database, or in some cases, from an actual laboratory assay. The goal in posting the Typical NA is to provide nutritionists and veterinarians with information that can aid in the treatment of clinical problems such as a cat with struvite or in working with overly obese dogs to prescribe feeding amounts and diet choice for the animal's success".

How many vets to you think have seen this info when trying to diagnose why a pet keeps presenting with symptoms consistent to liver and/or kidney failure when the owner has reduced the fat content BUT the assimilated fats and proteins are actually HIGHER than what is stated on the actual LABEL on the bag.

http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/?gclid=CKjE94CMiq4CFQ2R7QodVXcu5g
click on learn more

chrisnpat

Lake Villa, Il.

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Posted: 02/06/12 01:26pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lots of great information here, next time I decide to change something Im going to ask you guys first. Although I was a little afraid to make another Food thread.

Susan, I agree with you it does sound a little suspicious, but as I said earlier the people at the supply store said there were other people coming in with the same complaints. Were all strangers so I would think the only thing they all have in common was the food.

Anyways when Pat gets home tonight, I will start mixing the two foods again to get them back on the first one. Hopefully it will make a difference and if not Than we will go in another direction.

I will let everyone know if it did, next week.

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