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 > Do you really love your Dog? Good food vs cheap food.

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dturm

Munster, IN

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Posted: 02/07/12 04:01pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dgo1369 wrote:


For those who may be interested, just Google "ethoxiquin" and try to ignore the emotional aspects...


You made my point.

BCSnob

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Posted: 02/08/12 03:53am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Google does a great job pulling up lots of information found on the internet; however, there is lots of opinion and regurgitated opinion found on the internet that when repeted often enough can become accepted as fact.

A great example of internet rumor and myth being accepted as fact is "ivermectin (HeartGard) is not a safe heartworm preventative for herding breeds".

Instead of using google for finding "facts" try using google scholar.

Mark

BCSnob

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Posted: 02/08/12 04:44am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I love this item found while using google to search ethoxyquin.
Quote:

Ethoxyquin is not only used as a preservative in dog foods but… are you ready for this… it’s also used as a pesticide… and as a hardening agent in the manufacture of rubber.


But this website doesn't tell you this....
Quote:

In plastic manufacturing, ascorbic acid can be used to assemble molecular chains more quickly and with less waste than traditional synthesis methods.


or this...
Quote:

The antioxidant efficiency of the biological antioxidant alpha-tocopherol during melt extrusion of polypropylene (PP) was investigated. The melt stabilising effect of alpha-tocopherol was found to be much higher than that of the commercial synthetic hindered phenol antioxidant Irganox 1010 especially at very low concentrations.


Are you ready for this.....
Vitamin C and E are being used in the manufacturing of plastics.

Don't forget about the industrial cleaning uses of ascorbic acid.

DOTLDaddy

Camp Canine, Ballwin, MO. U.S.A.

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Posted: 02/08/12 05:02am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dturm wrote:

I am amused by the low fat diets. We treat inflammatory and skin problems by ADDING fats, granted they are specific Omegas and fatty acids. Dogs and cats just don't have the problem with cholesterol, triglycerides and fats that people do. In 34 years of practice, I can count on one hand the number of dogs I've seen that have had these problems......
I think it is not uncommon for people to anthropomorphize their health issues and concerns to their pets, i.e., "If this dog food makes me sick when I eat it, then it must be bad for Bowzer as well!"


Walter & Garland - Camp Canine caretakers
Gen. Gretchen - 9 y.o. GSD - Special Forces/Seal/DOTL Cloudbusters
Gen. Missy - GSD/Aussie - Joined Special Forces/DOTL Rainbow Division, June 11,2006
Miss Inga - 9 week old GSD. Still a civilian at this point.



AZPops

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Posted: 02/08/12 06:50am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DOTLDaddy wrote:

dturm wrote:

I am amused by the low fat diets. We treat inflammatory and skin problems by ADDING fats, granted they are specific Omegas and fatty acids. Dogs and cats just don't have the problem with cholesterol, triglycerides and fats that people do. In 34 years of practice, I can count on one hand the number of dogs I've seen that have had these problems......
I think it is not uncommon for people to anthropomorphize their health issues and concerns to their pets, i.e., "If this dog food makes me sick when I eat it, then it must be bad for Bowzer as well!"



Well hold on here, wait just a dang gun minute! What you're saying is, I'm NOT suppose to test Harlee and Calvin's food before feeding it to them?

Anonymous

gwinn1952

Gwinn, Michigan

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Posted: 02/08/12 08:39am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We have three dogs (golden retriever, 2 dachshund). When we got the golden last February she was put on Science Diet like the other two. It got to the point even at 10 months old she was pooping 7-8 times a day and really soft (depending on the amount of water each day and she drank alot). Did my research on the internet and decided to go with Blue Buffalo as it was purchaseable in both Florida and Michigan where I live. Our golden has trimmed down and only goes poop 2-3 times per day and firm. Doesn't drink anywhere the amount of water she did before. Even though we exercised our dogs with walks/runs at least a couple of times per day and then play in the back yard, the golden seem to be a little heavy. Once she was put on Blue Buffalo she thinned out and looks great. It is well worth the price and when petsupermarket has a 10% off coupon we buy several.

mmp3823

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Posted: 02/08/12 09:32am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We used to get Ol' Roy for our dogs until we started seeing whole kernels of corn. We didn't know if that was good for the dogs or not and so did some research. We ended up switching to Kirkland brand dog food sold by Costco. It has good protein/fat/carb ratio and is not too expensive either.


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FSJPat

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Posted: 02/08/12 09:50am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We started feeding our dogs Taste of the Wild, and they have much more energy. Even our 12 year old Chesapeake Bay Retriever moves around much better and plays more. Their coats have never looked better, either.

Our friends have 3 terriers (a rat, rat mix, and a Jack rat) and the rat and rat mix were overweight. The rat mix had bladder problems and often would wet herself at night, relying on medication that left her drugged up. They started feeding TOTW after seeing the difference in our dogs, and saw a HUGE improvement in the health of their dogs. No more nighttime pee accidents (and no more medication), much higher energy levels, and the weight has been dropping steadily.


Pat and Karen, a Navy Chief and his hot nurse
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rockhillmanor

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Posted: 02/08/12 10:14am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

fordsooperdooty wrote:

.........It's just one of the many, many ingredients in the dog food we are feeding to our beloved companions. Ethoxyquin has been linked to thyroid, kidney, reproductive and immune related illnesses as well as cancer.....


Although the op intentions was tongue in cheek. Making light of Ethoxyquin? You decide if its funny to continue feeding food with this preservative.

Yes Ethoxyguin was found by the FDA to be shown to cause changes in the liver that resulted in cancer of the liver. Yes it is still used and found in many pet foods.

Forget google, yahoo, and the media....GO TO FDA government site and find out on published documents what REALLY was found and what was done regarding Ethoxyquin.

What is said in the media, the hysteria storm, then the calming of the media is NOT what goes on behind the scenes after the fact. FDA reports are public record. Albeit their site is not user friendly if you persist you will find documented records regarding the TRUTH about what the end result of what they decided to allow in pet foods regarding each and every ingredient.

I have posted this before. The facts are all there on the FDA site.

The jist of it is they 'acknowledged' it caused changes in the liver and FDA merely ASKED the company if they would VOLUNTARILY reduce the ppms. and it is still used in pet foods today. And the ppms are NOT tested upon arrival at pet food company manuf. You decide.

Remember the Ethoxyquin issue a few years back?
News reports calmed the masses and assured us this was a safe product.
Well think again, here's is what apparently did not hit the 10:00 news back then.

This is from a CVM General Label report update March 2010

In the 1990s, CVM began receiving reports from dog owners attributing the presence of ethoxyquin in the dog food with a myriad of adverse effects, such as allergic reactions, skin problems, major organ failure, behavior problems, and cancer. However, there was a paucity of available scientific data to support these contentions, or to show other adverse effects in dogs at levels approved for use in dog foods. Subsequent studies by the manufacturer of ethoxyquin showed a dose-dependent accumulation of a hemoglobin-related pigment in the liver, as well as increases in the levels of liver-related enzymes in the blood. Although these changes are due to ethoxyquin in the diet, the pigment is not made from ethoxyquin itself, and the health significance of these findings is unknown.

CVM has asked the pet food industry to voluntarily lower the maximum level of use of ethoxyquin in dog foods from 150 ppm (0.015%) to 75 ppm


A. They did NOT ban the use of this ingredient.

B. The CVM 'asked' the pet food industry to VOLUNTARILY lower the maximum ppm

C. So the pet owner is now feeding their pet with a food that is KNOWN by testing to cause:
accumulation of a hemoglobin-related pigment in the liver,increases in the levels of liver-related enzymes in the blood.

Pet food manuf do not test the levels of this preservative when it arrives at the plant. You all don't see a problem with any this?

For the cat owners.
They left THIS product in the cat food even though they knew it caused blood cell changes, but it didn't cause anemia so they would not ban it. That is until some vets did tests and found it DID cause major problems with red blood cells. How many cats had to die from this one?

It was known for some time that propylene glycol caused Heinz Body formation in the red blood cells of cats (small clumps of proteins seen in the cells when viewed under the microscope), but it could not be shown to cause overt anemia or other clinical effects. However, reports in the veterinary literature of scientifically sound studies have shown that propylene glycol reduces the red blood cell survival time, renders red blood cells more susceptible to oxidative damage, and has other adverse effects in cats consuming the substance at levels found in soft-moist food. In light of these new data, CVM amended the regulations to expressly prohibit the use of propylene glycol in cat foods.

China dog treats - BTW, The majority of all dog food ingredients are purchased from other countries because it is cheaper. Beef usually from Argentina, grains from japan and china, etc, etc. And still is even after the disastrous melamine that killed hundreds of pets.


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned,
so as to have the life that is waiting for us".


BCSnob

Middletown, MD

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Posted: 02/08/12 11:32am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So let's round out the information released by the FDA and provide links to the source of the quote.

Quote:

The results from this study show that ethoxyquin levels above the current tolerance in dog foods produced no adverse reproductive effects. There was, however, an increase in a dark, reddish-brown pigment in the liver of female dogs immediately after completing a 6-week lactation. The liver pigment was identified as protoporphyrin IX, a normal intermediate in the synthesis of heme. This pigment was also associated with elevations in liver-related enzymes in the serum of a few animals.

During lactation, the female dogs consumed two to three times more food as a percentage of body weight than they did at maintenance, and this increased food consumption likely contributed to the increased pigment deposition in the liver and in the elevated serum enzymes. The increased pigment deposition and serum enzymes in lactating female dogs may be reversible when food consumption returns to maintenance, but it still constitutes a finding that must be further investigated.


Here are the details from a follow up study.

Quote:

In a 90-day study, groups of five beagles of each sex were given
ethoxyquin (purity, 97.6%) by capsule at 0, 2, 4, 20, or 40 mg/kg bw
per day. Clear signs of toxicity were seen during the first seven
weeks of the study at 40 mg/kg bw per day, including reduced body
weight, staining of the body surface, brown urine, brown sclera, dark
mucoid faeces, and emesis, and these groups received only empty
capsules for the final six weeks of the study, effectively becoming
reversibility groups. Investigations of clinical chemistry (including
thyroid hormones), haematology, and ophthalmoscopy were performed
before treatment and at weeks 4 and 12 or 13. Post-mortem
investigations included microscopic examination of a wide range of
tissues from all animals and special stains for pigment
identification.

One female at the highest dose was sacrificed in extremis on
day 13. Other findings were similar in males and females. Clinical
signs including brown staining of the abdomen and urogenital area,
brown urine, decreased faeces, and emesis were seen regularly at 20
and 40 mg/kg bw per day and occasionally during the 4 h after dosing
at 4 mg/kg bw per day; these signs were still present between weeks 7
and 13 ('recovery') in animals at the highest dose. Body-weight loss
occurred at 40 mg/kg bw per day in weeks 1-7, which reversed when
dosing stopped, but females had a lower (12%) mean body weight than
controls at termination. At 20 mg/kg bw per day, body-weight gain was
reduced (60%) throughout the study. Food consumption was reduced at 20
(20%) and 40 mg/kg bw per day (up to 50%). The only notable change in
haematological parameters was a dose-related decrease in activated
partial thromboplastin times in males at 4 mg/kg bw per day and higher
and in females at the highest dose. Marked increases in total
bilirubin concentration and in alkaline phosphatase, alanine
aminotransferase, aspartate aminotransferase, and gamma-GT activities
in serum, indicative of liver dysfunction, were seen at 20 mg/kg bw
per day in weeks 4 and 12 or 13 and at 40 mg/kg bw per day in week 4
only; alanine aminotransferase and, to a lesser extent, alkaline
phosphatase activities were also increased at 4 mg/kg bw per day. By
week 13, the serum values in animals at 40 mg/kg bw per day
(seven-week treatment, six-week recovery) had returned approximately
to control values. There were no significant changes in absolute or
relative organ weights. Treatment-related gross and microscopic
findings were limited to the liver. At 20 and 40 mg/kg bw per day, a
darkened appearance was associated microscopically with increased
pigment deposition, hepatocellular necrosis, cytoplasmic vacuolation,
and bile-duct hyperplasia; at 4 mg/kg bw per day, occasional findings
of mild or moderate pigmentation, minimal hepatocellular necrosis, and
vacuolation were recorded. The pigments were found to be porphyrin and
bilirubin in most cases, some sections also staining for haemosiderin.
The NOAEL was 2 mg/kg bw per day (Naas, 1996c).

Source: International Programme on Chemical Safety


NOAEL = no observed adverse effect level

2 mg/kg bw is approximately equivalent to a 40lb dog eating 2.4 cups of kibble with 150PPM ethoxyquin or 4.9 cups of kibble with 75PPM ethoxyquin.



I have a REAL problem with the attitude that if a compound shows adverse effects at any level (dose, PPM, concentration, etc) it should be banned from any use. If we adopted this approach we would ban everything we take into our bodies because at some level (dose) everything would be bad (possibly toxic) for you.

* This post was last edited 02/08/12 11:57am by BCSnob *   View edit history

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