Tireman9
Akron, OH
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Here are a couple of shots of what was actually a small puncture. You can see the rust in this view.
And here you can see that the tire had lost its tread but the slow leak is obvious.
RE Possible cut to steel. A close look at each of the "cuts" will confirm or refute the idea that the cut is to the steel and the steel has started to rust locally. If you find any individual steel filaments that are not brass color then there has been some corrosion present. I am basing my idea on the white dot in the cut. I htink this is the end of a filament but I could be wrong as all I have to go on is the picture. I do note the discoloration around the "cut" which I have seen before in confirmed cases where the damage went to the steel and further examination found corrosion.
You can learn more if you visit my tire blog RVTireSafety
In my opinion as a QS9000 and ISO/TS 16949 Quality auditor the word "Quality" does not appear to be in the RV industry dictionary.
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winkyb
Florida
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Tireman9 wrote:winkyb wrote: There is a RV trailer here at Daytona now sitting on the side of I 95 with the fender well riped up so bad that I think the guy took his stuff out of it and just left it there.
Your tire that had a "wrinkle" on the inside and started to "swell" on the outside is a perfect candidate for filing a complaint with NHTSA. I have previously posted a list of the info NHTSA is looking for and if you add the "swell" and the "wrinkle" pictures it would be hard for them to ignore once there were a couple of other complaints from the same tire plant that also involve what we think is a structural detachment.
I still have not got the trailer weighted but will be back out soon.
There is not a scale close to me here.
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Beach-Rat
Northern Virginia
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Joined: 09/14/2007
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JBarca wrote:I have 2 tire issues that just surfaced today... (snip) The left rear tire will not clear the concrete on this setting.
(snip)
I have 3 tires that have a OD circumference of 90".
Then I have this left rear tire at 91".
John.. welcome to my world!
My first separation was an edge tread.. all of the "experts" on numerous boards were singing the bent axle song.. but.. I placed the new spare in that position and it did not duplicate the problem.
Then I had the "left rear tire will not clear the concrete on this setting" only mine was my "between the tires wheel chock" wouldn't fit between the tires. (again the bent (out of alignment) song from the "experts")
Your "straight edge' pictures indicate to me that the problem was discovered early, if you had towed 500 or more miles on the damaged tire (they can hold together for long periods) the tread could have been flat but the tread depth would have been very shallow over the "goose eggs".
I have lost 9 tires in six years, only one blew out, the other eight failed like yours. The original spare was still good when the other four were returned and replaced under warrantee, it hung under the trailer for three years and when used (10 mile trip) it did what yours are doing.
Good luck..
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JBarca
Dublin, Ohio, USA
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Joined: 12/16/2004
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Hi Folks,
Thanks for the comments, greatly appreciated as I sort through this.
I had to work today so I did not have as much time to create responses to all the good questions/comments. But I did check all 4 tires today to see if this bulging is starting on the other 3 tires.
Some big picture things. The tire make up Capri-Racer asked.
And the spare tire. This tire only had about 50 miles on it. I used it ounce when I had a right side tire valve leak. It has sat in my front cargo hole the rest of the time. I am using a dry wall square and the long blade is on the outside of the tire. This will show on every tire the same way so you know the outside. I'm using this as my control for tire roundness. This is at 65 psi
Here is some of the info to add and clarify as there may have been some misunderstanding on the good tire and the bulge tire. All tires have some kind of tread splits and fine side wall cracks.
Left rear tire: The problem bulged tire that started all this. I looked it all over today. There are some tread splits and side wall cracks. This tire has towed it's last for me. It will not leave the yard on the camper.
Here is the bulge
And 180 degrees from the bulge
Side wall cracks.
Tread splits
A problem are with 3 splits in one area.
close up - This is about 6" from the start of the bulge
more close up
The other close up
Now to the other 3 tires.
Left Front Tire:
Thread splits. There are 5 areas
Area 1
Area 2
Area 3
Area 4
Area 5
Now to the other side of the camper. Door side.
Right Rear Tire:
Tread Splits. There are 3 areas.
Area 1
Area 2
Area 3
Right Front Tire:
Tread Splits: There are 3 areas and a strange depression
Area 1 This must be a stone cut.
Area 2
Area 3
And now this strange depression right in the center. It is like 3 grips have managed to wear lower then the rest by a lot.
Here is a top view. See the 3 grips.
A view showing the depth
The depression is 2" long, the length of 3 grips.
A pattern in all the tires, the outside edge is wearing from turning I do believe. I do rotate the front to the back tire and on both sides. But I can see a trace of rubber on the road every time I turn much going down the road. I never studied this before this set of tires. Tandem tires just scrub in a turn.
Alignment was mentioned. I worked through this before these tires where installed. More here if you want to see this: TT axle alignment & install - Detailed (long lot's of pics)
I track the wear on these tires to see how even they are wearing by measuring tread depth across the face. I do not know how the tire industry does this but this was my method.
Here is the 2500 mile wear check. You can see the middles are wearing slightly more as I am running 65 psi and the tires are not fully loaded. I have more data but have not uploaded. As of today, I have no tire wearing issues other then what I believe is turn scrubbing. A TT can be aligned to be spot on.
I know I am buying 1 new tire, now I have to work through am I buying all 5 new and move on. And then what to buy? This situation was not to rear it's head until next year at tire life year 5.
What I am more wanting to do is learn what I did wrong if it did anything wrong.
More tomorrow.
Thanks
John
PS Capri-Racer, I will respond to your weight and tire comments on Monday, I'm out of time tonight but do want to respond. Thanks
John & Cindy
2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver
2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we were camping!)
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CapriRacer
Somewhere in the US
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John,
I'm not going do duplicate the photos. Gawrsh, they took up a whole freaking page!
But I will comment on the ones that show cracks or cuts. So in order:
1) Construction Details: Yes, 1 nylon cap ply
2) Tread Radius Shot
3) Another TR
4) 3rd TR
5) Lower Sidewall Crack - just over the line
6) Tread Cracking - Just inside the line
7) Cut
8) Cut near scale, cracks in other places
9) Cracks
10) Cracks
11) Tread Radius Shot
12) Cut
13) Hard to see what it being photographed, but those must be cracks
14) Yup, cracks
15) Cut
16) Cut
17) Cut
18) Tread Radius Shot
19) Cuts
20) Cuts
21) Cuts and a lug tear (not a crack)
22) Tread Radius Shot
23) Area 1 - Cut
24) Area 2 - Slight Cuts
25) Area 3 - Cut
26) Photo of Tread
27) Photo of Tread Raduis with depression
28) Photo of scale with tread
29) Photo with caliper.
That should exactly line up to all the photos.
********************************************************************
CapriRacer
Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com
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winkyb
Florida
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Looks like you are lucky that one of them have not taken your fender well out.
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Tireman9
Akron, OH
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John
In general my opinions on what is seen in the pictures matches Barry's. I am sure that Barry and I would have a great time trying to agree 100% of the time even if we had the tires in our hands.
My definition would be that a crack initiates within the tire rubber and there are no signs of initiation from an external object. A cut is started by some external cause. Either way if the cut or crack grown such that you can see or feel the belts with a flat blade screwdriver it is deep enough to cause other problems.
The tread design is not in my opinion what I would consider desirable for trailer application. I see little reason for all the traction lugs in the shoulder rib. If I were shopping for new trailer tires I would try and find something with more continuous shoulder ribs.
I know these are not your size but they show what I am talking about.
Trailer tire
Drive (traction) design
Trailer tireTrailer tire
On THIS page click position to see the difference
A reader suggested THIS tire line
* This post was
edited 04/23/12 08:31am by Tireman9 *
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JBarca
Dublin, Ohio, USA
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Than you Gentlemen for the replies. Very much appreciated. I have run out of time again but will post back on this saga.
Another question as we talk about balancing tires and I agree with this.
When we are talking "trailer" wheels what is an acceptable run out (total indicator reading) of the rim where the tire bead seats against?
Thanks
John
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CapriRacer
Somewhere in the US
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Tireman9 wrote:.........I am sure that Barry and I would have a great time trying to agree 100% of the time even if we had the tires in our hands..........
100% agree. Even experts don't always agree, but when we stand together as colleagues with respect for the other guy's opinion, it makes for some very educational - and lively - discussion.
JBarca wrote:.......When we are talking "trailer" wheels what is an acceptable run out (total indicator reading) of the rim where the tire bead seats against?.........
Wheels? Mmmmmm. First, my expertise is in the rubber things. When it comes to wheels, Ihave limited experience and expertise.
But I will tell you I don't like TIR (Total Indicated Runout). The important value is the first harmonic - the best fit to the curve of a sine wave. I can't remember if a Hunter GSP9700 gives that value for the wheel or not - I'm thinking probably, because the machine does do matching.
The other half of this is that it is easier to make round wheels than it is to make round tires - and wheel's affect is greater - so the values has to be pretty small.
I'm thinking on the order of - rim only - 0.020" for the first harmonic and 0.030" for total (what Roger and I would call composite).
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ExRocketScientist
Laurel, MD
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Joined: 11/11/2010
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John -- Unless you have only 3" of clearance in your wheel wells, if you don't mind getting new wheels, you might consider the BFGCTA in LT225/75R16 Load range E. It is about 29.6" in diameter. Your current tires are about 28.3 inches. If you have about 3 and 3/4 inches of clearance now, these would probably work for you. You could get a tire and wheel package from trailertiresandwheels.com in Edon -- the shipping shouldn't be too bad for you since you are in the Columbus area.
ERS
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