RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Revived Trailer Tire Thread (formerly on the 5th Wheel Forum

RV Blog

  |  

RV Sales

  |  

Campgrounds

  |  

RV Parks

  |  

RV Club

  |  

RV Buyers Guide

  |  

Roadside Assistance

  |  

Extended Service Plan

  |  

RV Travel Assistance

  |  

RV Credit Card

  |  

RV Loans

Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Help and Support  |  Contact

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Revived Trailer Tire Thread (formerly on the 5th Wheel Forum

This Topic Is Closed  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 95  
Prev  |  Next
Sponsored By:
winkyb

Florida

Senior Member

Joined: 02/02/2008

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 04/27/12 04:47pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JBarca wrote:

winkyb wrote:



Check out this tire at Tire Rack( Continental Vanco 225/70/15.)

Vanco 2(Highway Rib Summer)
Diam. is 27.4 load range D 2470 .They are wider but it worked for me so far with about 1200 miles on them.

Thanks, I did. The down side is they declare these to not use near freezing temperatures which in my case is a problem since we winter camp. Thanks for the lead though.


I am thinking that it is only becouse the tread is not design for traction in winter conditions.I may be wrong.Maybe some one will jump in that knows for sure.
I can tell you traction on snow to go or stop would be about like slick tires as the cross tread is that close.

* This post was edited 04/27/12 05:03pm by winkyb *

CapriRacer

Somewhere in the US

Senior Member

Joined: 01/27/2012

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 04/28/12 04:18am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Beach-Rat wrote:

......After reading "not use near freezing temperatures" I was very concerned (these LTs were looking like my ST fix)..

According to TireRack they carry 17 Highway Rib Summer Tires (but like all summer tires, are not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice).. So.. where can they be sold? Even Hawaii has snow on The Big Island!

Tire experts.. what does the disclaimer mean in the real world (When Florida has a cold snap will the tires freeze and fall off of the trucks?).....

First, it isn't like there is a clear bright line - it's a gradual thing and the tire companies have chosen 40 as the point they want you to be aware of. I think what it means is that people need to be careful starting at those temperstures.

Taking the Florida situation as an example, when the temperature gets down that low, avoid driving - or do it carefully. Besides, the low temperatuures only last a short time. No need to avoid certain tires because 3% of the time they are less than optimal.

Beach-Rat wrote:

......On a happier note.. my warantee claim for belt separation was denied , the tires are too old. There is a three year warantee and it runs from date of manufacture, not retail sale. Maybe they will send me flowers in the morning..


BeachRat, when you say they denied your claim: Was it the tire dealer that did that? Was there damage to the vehicle that was part of the claim?


********************************************************************

CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com

Tireman9

Akron, OH

Senior Member

Joined: 08/16/2002

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 04/28/12 02:03pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

While in my capacity as a tire inspection specialist I didn't have to bill anyone, so I cannot relate to the $2k cost. I just did the inspections and tests needed to get to the root cause of a tire's condition. While some times it took many man-hours of inspection and investigation and I needed chemical lab analysis or the assistance with the Electron Microscope, usually I was able to find the root cause with basic visual and microscopic examination. My job was to do whatever necessary so I have never been in a position to charge for a full lab forensic analysis.
Closest I ever came was when I was retained (outside my regular job) to investigate and duplicate conditions that involved a fatal accident. Obviously since that involved buying a car and moved on from there, that investigation went far beyond just $2k.

But, I note that John B. lives here in Ohio, and is only a couple of hours away. While I cannot offer any Shearography or chemical lab analysis, I can offer what I consider a normal cut tire autopsy with a report similar in detail to what I have provided to various OEMs for just my out of pocket costs. (est $100 - $150 for consumables such as special saw & blades) PM me if you are interested

I would also post the results on this thread if John approved as since he would be paying, the resulting report would be his property.

* This post was edited 04/28/12 09:03pm by Tireman9 *


40 years experience as tire Design & Quality engineer with focus on failed tire forensics.

Google "Tireman9" if you want to learn more on RV Tire Safety

JBarca

Dublin, Ohio, USA

Senior Member

Joined: 12/16/2004

View Profile





Offline
Posted: 04/28/12 08:05pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Tireman9,

I PM'ed you. Let see what we can do. It could be beneficial to all to learn what went on with my my rig. If I did something to cause the problem, then lets all learn from it to help save some fellow camper the same thing on their camper.

Plus I need to figure this out and take next steps to correct the problem.

Thanks for offering this to us.

John


John & Cindy

2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver

2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we were camping!)


JBarca

Dublin, Ohio, USA

Senior Member

Joined: 12/16/2004

View Profile





Offline
Posted: 04/28/12 09:11pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

CapriRacer,

I did make it to measuring my wheel loads today. The data is more eye opening then I had expected. I have 300# total error in the data that I want to find before I post the data. This could be accumulative error of 50# from each wheel location.

While there is a shift in the total weight, the learning is these loads are more then my last weight slip. And it shows your point that wheel locations have different loads. Even with the 300# error I am not over on any tires max capacity but the reserve is for sure not what I thought it was.

How I found this 300# error is I also sanitized my water system today. I measured the wheel loads dry and then filled the camper with water. 42 gallons of water only weighs so much, the weight gain is more then it should be summed by all 4 wheels.

Sunday if things work out right I will take the rig to the truck scales and measure the total combined axles weights and split the axle loads on 2 scales to at least get a total axle load to compare back to the force jack data.

The issue is how to get an actual scale that can read individual wheel loads that the calibration error is not large. Even the certified truck scales are only accurate to within 50#. Need to find someone with those portable scales the state troopers use.

Something as a cross check is using the static load radius to at least confirm I am not at full load. The problem is what is the SLR of a Denman ST225/75R15 D load range at 65psi?

Comparing other brands, The spread is large enough that it is inconclusive for me to use it.

GY Marathon is 12.5" GY Marathon

This site says the GY Marathon is 13" NW trailer GY Marathon

Tow max is 13.3" Tow max

Here is the method I used. Ex Rocket Scientist would be proud... this is his method that I compensated a little more with it.

Load up the truck, camper and engage the WD hitch so it is transferring weight to the TT axles. Using a concrete pad, get all tires on the camper and the truck up off the ground on a 2 x 8.



Using a force jack, preload it sightly under the axle seat. Measure frame to ground as a cross check.


Jack up the camper and take the 2 x 8 out from that location.


After that pic I went to a bottle jack. The floor jack has an arc of travel with it and moves the camper.




Lower camper slowly onto force jack. Read gage. Check frame height to ground to confirm you are in the same place. It is.


Do all wheel locations. Fill camper water system and fresh tank over front axle. Redo wheel locations.

Take data and do moment calculations to convert load at axle seat to load at center of tire. Sit back and go, h'mm this is more then I thought.... and all 4 wheels are different.

More on Sunday. If you have any idea what the static load radius for that Denman would be, that would help as a cross check.

I have seen enough to convince myself I need more reserve capacity.

Thanks

John

Beach-Rat

Northern Virginia

Full Member

Joined: 09/14/2007

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 04/28/12 10:41pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

CapriRacer wrote:


BeachRat, when you say they denied your claim: Was it the tire dealer that did that? Was there damage to the vehicle that was part of the claim?


OE (Mission) all had belt separation, goose eggs at 13k/ 2 1/2 years.. OE paid for new tires.. only thing that I could find, Goodyear & Maxxis were nationally backordered, was a set of Titans trade named Dico. The Dicos ran great for two seasons. February, on the way to Key West I had my first ever blow out.. lost the RF tire 150 miles out. Lose an hour and a half buying a new tire.. In campground at Key West (1200 miles from home) I notice the LF tire had a big bulge in the tread.. buy second tire (bias belted, the only ST225/75-15 that I could find in Key West) Drive home.. Haul the Key West goose egg home, call 800# and on their instruction return to dealer.

Pull whells to repack bearings.. last two Dicos now have tread bulges (15k on them) so they go to dealer (he is thrilled to seem, so much so that I mail ordered replacement tires)

Manufacture date is over three years from claim (but not retail purchase) so they denied the claim.

No damage to trailer.

Off again, check back in in a week or so.

Tireman9

Akron, OH

Senior Member

Joined: 08/16/2002

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 04/29/12 09:39am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Beach-Rat wrote:

CapriRacer wrote:


BeachRat, when you say they denied your claim: Was it the tire dealer that did that? Was there damage to the vehicle that was part of the claim?


OE (Mission) all had belt separation, goose eggs at 13k/ 2 1/2 years.. OE paid for new tires.. only thing that I could find, Goodyear & Maxxis were nationally backordered, was a set of Titans trade named Dico. The Dicos ran great for two seasons. February, on the way to Key West I had my first ever blow out.. lost the RF tire 150 miles out. Lose an hour and a half buying a new tire.. In campground at Key West (1200 miles from home) I notice the LF tire had a big bulge in the tread.. buy second tire (bias belted, the only ST225/75-15 that I could find in Key West) Drive home.. Haul the Key West goose egg home, call 800# and on their instruction return to dealer.

Pull whells to repack bearings.. last two Dicos now have tread bulges (15k on them) so they go to dealer (he is thrilled to seem, so much so that I mail ordered replacement tires)

Manufacture date is over three years from claim (but not retail purchase) so they denied the claim.

No damage to trailer.

Off again, check back in in a week or so.


Sounld like you have a good case to file a complaint on each tire failure with NHTSA. Just be sure to provide tire DOT and RV VIN and as much info as I previously suggested in my earlier post. NHTSA will not replace your tires or pay for damage but if sufficiently documented they may light a fire under the tire importer. Keep your documentation and lots of good well lit pictures of the tires. If you can keep the tires too that would be good unless the tire co wants to stand behind their product and replace them.

Visit my Blog. Send me some email with pictures.

Tireman9

Akron, OH

Senior Member

Joined: 08/16/2002

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 04/29/12 09:46am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JBarca wrote:

CapriRacer,

I did make it to measuring my wheel loads today. The data is more eye opening then I had expected. I have 300# total error in the data that I want to find before I post the data. This could be accumulative error of 50# from each wheel location.


snip



I have seen enough to convince myself I need more reserve capacity.

Thanks

John


SLR is not a great tool for finding load as tire stiffness varies around a tire probably in the 20# to 100# per inch or more. There is also a time factor "creep" thet will enter into your measurements.

I would think that if you can get +/- 50# readings that would be OK as we are more concerned with loads in the multiple hundreds of pounds.

Your bushings will also cause some variation.

Looking forward to seeing your final values even if +/- 50 #

JBarca

Dublin, Ohio, USA

Senior Member

Joined: 12/16/2004

View Profile





Offline
Posted: 04/29/12 08:26pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Here is the data from this weekend. I went to Flying Jay today and created 4 new fresh sets of weights.

The camper was filled with fresh water. 32 gallon fresh tank over the front axle, 6 gallon HW heater plus water in the lines = 42 gallons total.

There is some scale error in these numbers. This is normal for semi scales. Here is the raw Data. All numbers are in pounds.

TV & TT with WD engaged

TV Front Axle: 4,020
TV Rear Axle: 5,480
TT Axles: 8,300
Gross Combined weight: 17,800

TV & TT with "NO" WD
TV Front Axle: 3,620
TV Rear Axle: 6,040
TT Axles: 8,120
Gross Combined weight: 17,780

TV & TT with WD engged - TT axles split on 2 scales.
TV Front Axle: Front of TV off the scale
TV Rear Axle: 5,500
TT Front Axle: 4,340
TT Rear Axle: 4,040

TV Only
TV Front Axle: 4,100
TV Rear Axle: 3,760
TV Gross weight: 7,860

I also redid all the force jack figures with fresh water. I was trying to find the 300# plus pound error. I made it better but cannot get it to match the Cat scale numbers. Some of this may be the rubber equalizer and the method. Today I saw the wheel load change right before my eyes. Watching the force gage it would slowly drop, in some cases by 200#. Finally figured it out with my calipers across the EZ flex equalizer. At time zero the weight was the highest and the rubber not as compressed. Then after a minute or two it changed and the equalizer came together more. That changes the axle loads. Jacking the camper up and letting it down the rubber flexes until it settles. The force jack is weighing heavy on the axles so it is a safer number in this location. I was able to get the force jack to within 220# total verses the Cat scale axle numbers.



Here is a larger one, click it once it fires it will get bigger: Larger on Photo Bucket

If 15% reserve per location is the need, I have 3 tires locations not meeting this.

I also learned I am heavier then my last weight slip. I added hanger upgrades and a ladder and holder under the camper. And I'm sure some other things. It all adds up. The biggest eye opener was the loaded tongue weight. By using the force jack and a Sherline tongue scale it comes out at 1,500# here in my yard. Doing the math on the Cat scale slips comes out to be 1,800#. I have yet to figure out this difference since the force jack is weighing heavy at the axles and the Sherline matches it. I did measure the static load radius on each location just for data. It for sure is not conclusive.

New tires and rims will be in my future. The decision now comes down to E load range ST's in 15" that fit the camper or bit the bullet and go to 16" LT commercial truck tires and deal with the raising the camper. Both can do the loads with reserve however the commercial truck tire may be better in the reduction to cuts and other road hazards. These ST's sure seemed to get cuts which must be from camp ground stones and my driveway. Spending all this money and not addressing that keeps pushing me to the commercial tire.

Anyone seeing anything I missed please point it out.

A take away from this is direct to CapriRacers point. You need to know each wheels actual weight. Some how this needs to be an easier process then how I did it but this is what I had to work with.

I am also fortunate I have a camper built with the running gear to take the full GVWR of the camper. And even that is not enough if we want 15% or higher reserve capacity. Those who do not have this feature are even more at risk of being at or above the max of the tire in one or more locations.

Tireman9 and I are trying to work out something to analysis my failed tire to see if we can add to running it at only 12% reserve may or may not of affected it.

Hope this helps someone else working through this.

Thanks

John

Slowmover

Corpus Christi, Texas

Senior Member

Joined: 11/14/2003

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 05/02/12 07:18am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A take away from this is direct to CapriRacers point. You need to know each wheels actual weight. Some how this needs to be an easier process then how I did it but this is what I had to work with.

Yup,

And, if JBarca applies his tools then it's good enough for any man to follow to his own advantage.

This thread continues to give. One of the bar none best RV threads ever done.

Thanks.


1990 35' SILVER STREAK Sterling, 9k GVWR
2004 DODGE RAM 2WD 305/555 ISB, QC SRW LB NV-5600, 9k GVWR
Hensley Arrow; 15-cpm solo, 25-cpm towing

This Topic Is Closed  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 95  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Revived Trailer Tire Thread (formerly on the 5th Wheel Forum
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:

© 2014 RV.Net | Terms & Conditions | PRIVACY POLICY | YOUR PRIVACY RIGHTS