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Open Roads Forum  >  General RVing Issues

 > Need your advice on (writing) HOA covenants

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SRT

Head of the Lakes, MN

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Posted: 02/11/12 08:03am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sure glad I have a 2.5 acre lot in the trees with no HOA. The only things the developer wanted was earth tone colors on the homes and no living in a trailer while building. Of course, he skimped on having a decent road built into the development. Seems after several years frost boils started appearing every spring. Going to cost $$ from the property owners to rebuild the bad section.


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Mocoondo

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Posted: 02/11/12 09:19am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The best advice I can give you is move to dissolve the HOA.

HOA's are an unnecessary intrusion into the rights of private property owners.





monkey44

Cape Cod, MA and JAX, Fla

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Posted: 02/11/12 09:21am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ExRocketScientist on my quote ...

To clarify - yes, it remained a nice area to live - and illustrates that neighborhoods can remain nice and property values up even without the HOA police, who generally interpret HOA rules with a 'self-pleasing' bend and use the 'proxy votes' they control to push the HOA in a specific direction. Proxy votes is an extremely powerful tool in the right hands does good, and in the wrong hands does not. Any one person holding the proxy votes can pretty much run the complex.

You don't need an HOA to keep up a nice neighborhood - although in some areas the neighborhoods degrade, it's not always a function of no HOA, it's generally a function of the people that live there.


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rondeb

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Posted: 02/11/12 09:43am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We have lived in very nice neighborhoods and have always been allowed to park a vehicle of any nature at our home as long as it was behind the fence. Any vehicle outside of a garage must be in operational condition. Any vehicle that is not a commercial vehicle, ie, 3/4 ton 1 ton (if this is a private vehicle should be allowed to be at my residence)

Also, for your information: If any covenant in your old rules has been allowed to be broken, it is invalid and can not be enforced so no reason to put it in the new ones.

Make the rules very simple and only enough to protect from those individuals that don't care if the neighborhood is brought down by what they do. Most people would never do anything that would detract from the value of their home. I have never felt that expensive motorhomes or boats deter from value of homes.

As a Real Estate Broker for many years, I was beginning to see many changing their covenants to allow Recreational Vehicles to be parked behind fences in neighborhoods that did not allow them before. This is to be able to compete with the neighborhoods that allowed them. With the baby boomers retiring, they want toys and they want those toys with them. Not allowing them at your home, will reduce your buyers. Many builders and developers are now changing their ideas regarding recreational vehicles.

Buck62

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Posted: 02/11/12 09:50am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

monkey44 wrote:

ExRocketScientist on my quote ...

To clarify - yes, it remained a nice area to live - and illustrates that neighborhoods can remain nice and property values up even without the HOA police, who generally interpret HOA rules with a 'self-pleasing' bend and use the 'proxy votes' they control to push the HOA in a specific direction. Proxy votes is an extremely powerful tool in the right hands does good, and in the wrong hands does not. Any one person holding the proxy votes can pretty much run the complex.

You don't need an HOA to keep up a nice neighborhood - although in some areas the neighborhoods degrade, it's not always a function of no HOA, it's generally a function of the people that live there.


Your last statement is totally correct, the degrading of a neighborhood is really due to the people that live there and do not maintain their property. We have an HOA and in our community we still have a few vacant lots with trees on them that owners will build on someday after they retire. One of our major complaints is that the absent owners do not maintain their lots by trimming trees and mowing the lots. Our HOA sends out letters to the owners advising them to maintain their lots or the HOA will hire a company to do it and bill them. Most owners respond and maintain their lots but, we have had to place liens on a few properties after a few bills went unpaid. We had several committee's all made up of homeowner volunteers that review and approve design changes to the outside of the house or landscaping. We have a group of people that travel through our neigborhood looking for cracked drives due to tree roots (some are 3" high and making sure general maintenance is being done. No one complains about our HOA since you are made aware of it and all of our covenants prior to purchasing into the community.

ExRocketScientist

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Posted: 02/11/12 10:27am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

monkey44 wrote:

. . . snip . . .
You don't need an HOA to keep up a nice neighborhood - although in some areas the neighborhoods degrade, it's not always a function of no HOA, it's generally a function of the people that live there.

Well said. Good people trumps good "government" anyday.


ERS

bukhrn

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Posted: 02/11/12 03:46pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ausie607 wrote:

mowermech wrote:

In fact, if you do a comprehensive check on your city, county, and state laws, rules, and regulations, you just might find that many of the CCRs are already covered, and you just don't NEED them!
As you are looking at modifying the CCRs, keep two of the "laws of nature" firmly in mind:
The Law Of Unintended Consequences. This means that no matter what you do, the ultimate effect will NOT be what you had in mind.
The First Law of Maintenance Practices: If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.
Good luck.

160 PAGES of "Rules To Live By"??
I would move! Our CCRs consist of less than one page, and most of the rules are already written into State Law!


mowermech,,,,Well said sir!!!
Rule one " Do onto others as how you would expect them to DO you ". Mind your own business is a good policy.
Thats contrary to the concept of HOA's, which is to make Everyone live exactly the same. If everyone minded thier own business how would they ever tell you how to live your life, on your property.


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JJBIRISH

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Posted: 02/11/12 07:55pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mgirardo wrote:

As the president of our HOA Board of Director's, my best advice is to get legal counsel to assist in reviewing what you draw up. Every state, every county and every city have different laws.

You can't undo city/county/state code with your covenants. Meaning if it is illegal to park a trailer/motorhome at a residence for more than 24 hours, your covenants can't legally allow for more than that time period. Local law always prevails.

Also, FTC and HUD also trumps HOA. For instance, we had a tenant that had DirectTV installed. The installer was super lazy and had the dish installed along the driveway about 10 feet from the street. Basically in the middle of his front yard. We found out from our attorney that if that was the only place the dish could have been placed to receive a signal, we couldn't have it moved. The tenant had the FTC on his side because we can't restrict the tenants' right to have access to TV. Sounds ridiculous, especially since I don't recall the Constitution mentioning anything about the right to TV.



Maybe the association can remove their trees or order the neighbors to remove their trees so the dish can be moved to a spot acceptable to you…

I am only guessing that the association rules say it can’t be placed in a out of the way place like the roof, limiting his choices to the only place the rules didn’t exclude…

Our Association has a law firm on retainer. They deal solely with HOAs. Our annual retainer is $960 which allows us unlimited phone calls, lower rates and access to their collections department (which comes in handy). They also offer training once a year where they will come to a HOA board meeting or we can go to them and get $100 credit.

Over the last 2.5 years, we've spent about $5000 in legal fees and it has been worth every penny. About $1000 has been related to collections. If they collect, (which they usually do) we get it back.

Again, every state is different. In Georgia, HOAs no longer expire after 20 years as they did before the mid 1990s. The law was changed so that they automatically renew unless otherwise voted to disolve.

-Michael


So it’s the constitution that grants the HOA the right to control the use of anothers PRIVATE property and the lives of the people that reside there… I don’t remember that being mentioned in the constitution either…

Since most residents in these HOA controlled PRD’s are transplants into a rural area trying to escape what ever or where ever they lived before, I guess it’s the constitution that gives them the right to drive up the cost of community for all of the long time residents to satisfy their needs as well… that is what they do best for the rural community… these high density plans drive up the school cost, police and fire protection cost and DOT cost far more and faster than the revenue they ever produce… stripping the rural atmosphere with their traffic, strip malls, and crime that follows close behind their construction to…

I would be happy for those that like the HOA lifestyle if they would contain it inside the gates of their homogenized borders… unfortunately the whole community pays and loses something form their existence…


Love my mass produced, entry level, built by Lazy American Workers, Hornet


Biker1mike

Gallatin, NY

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Posted: 02/12/12 06:43am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mgirardo said "Sounds ridiculous, especially since I don't recall the Constitution mentioning anything about the right to TV."

True, but The Declaration of Independence comes close.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


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wandering1

Texas

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Posted: 02/12/12 07:37am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"Need your advice on (writing) HOA covenants" LOL


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