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Open Roads Forum  >  Fifth-Wheels

 > Maximum allowable 5th wheel hitch weight

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4x4ord

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Posted: 02/13/12 09:20am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Robin1953 wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:


....air bags do not enable a truck to carry any more weight than it did before the airbags were put on it...all airbags do is level a load and when towing, make more a smoother tow....read the instructions and disclaimers from any airbag manufacturer and they will tell you this....


I have read so many posts about bigger tires, air bags, etc. allows you to carry more weight. From my understanding that the entire drive train as well as brakes, etc. is used in the calculation of a vehicles GVWR, GCCW, etc. All of the mentioned add-ons may allow you to carry more weight than the vehicle is rated for but it by no means will ever increase any of the manufacturer ratings for the vehicle.


You are right the entire drive train and brakes needs to be considered. In the case of the F250 - the engine, transmission, chassis, brakes, every component on the F250 is the same as the F350 SRW aside from the rear suspension. Beefing up the suspension will not change the number on the door post but will make the truck at least as capable as the F350 SRW.

The best scenario would have been for the OP to have bought an F350 SRW instead of the F250 - the price is even about the same but due to poor marketing and advertising I believe there are many F250 owners out there who buy their truck believing it was designed to tow something and then find it unbelievable that the GVWR is limiting them to a 6000 lb trailer. They need to trade their new Super Duty diesel in for a F150 gas so they can haul something.

From a safety stand point there is no way someone is going to convince me that an F150 hauling an 8000 lb RV and staying within all its weight ratings is safer than a F250 diesel equipped with air bags hauling the same trailer with its GVWR exceeded by 400 lbs.


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dubdub07

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Posted: 02/13/12 09:25am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"All of the mentioned add-ons may allow you to carry more weight than the vehicle is rated for but it by no means will ever increase any of the manufacturer ratings for the vehicle."

This is a correct statement. You need to understand that the mods make the truck different than how it left the factory. Therefore, even though the sticker is accurate on the door for a factory truck a modded truck is no longer a "factory" truck. So let's hope whatever mod you make helps the truck carry more instead of the opposite. Airbags/shocks/springs do indeed help you carry more, it is physics. The disclaimers are there so our "sue happy" society can't hold the manufacters of the parts liable.....

My pin wt (camp ready) is 2400#. My FW is 36ft long. I drive the posted speed limit in one of the most mountainous states in the union. Troubles? None. The only issues I have are the slow "out of staters" that are in front of me.

This summer I will add our 4000# Wrangler to all this.

Truck: Ram 2500.


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cruz-in

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Posted: 02/13/12 10:21am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"From a safety stand point there is no way someone is going to convince me that an F150 hauling an 8000 lb RV and staying within all its weight ratings is safer than a F250 diesel equipped with air bags hauling the same trailer with its GVWR exceeded by 400 lbs"

X2

Lantley

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Posted: 02/13/12 10:38am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If a truck is within all of its ratings it's safe. F-150, F250, 2500, 3500HD, DRW,SRW, V-6, V-10, etc.
The towing parameters are designed to take the subjectivity and guesswork out of the equation. The public just needs to learn to respect and abide by the equations.
All of the big 3 have engineering departments that calculate the parameters for each and every truck in each and every configuration.
Yet the consumers still want to challenge the ratings and claim if you do this and add that than everything is OK.
I don't subscribe to the thought that the sky will fall if you exceed a tow rating, however I do believe that a vehicle that is within all of its parameters will tow better than one that is not.


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4x4ord

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Posted: 02/13/12 11:06am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

If a truck is within all of its ratings it's safe. F-150, F250, 2500, 3500HD, DRW,SRW, V-6, V-10, etc.
The towing parameters are designed to take the subjectivity and guesswork out of the equation. The public just needs to learn to respect and abide by the equations.
All of the big 3 have engineering departments that calculate the parameters for each and every truck in each and every configuration.
Yet the consumers still want to challenge the ratings and claim if you do this and add that than everything is OK.
I don't subscribe to the thought that the sky will fall if you exceed a tow rating, however I do believe that a vehicle that is within all of its parameters will tow better than one that is not.


Part of the problem with the way that trucks are rated is that it is only based partially on engineering and largely on marketing. I agree that if a truck is towing within its ratings it is usually safe. I don't, however, believe that a truck towing over its ratings is necessarily unsafe.

For example in the Ford line up of trucks you can order a F350 SRW with a GVWR of 11500 lbs. As a no charge option you can order the 10,000 lb GVWR package which consists of a different door sticker and reduces your GVWR by 1500 lbs. Obviously there is more to GVWR's than engineering.

maxsuperduty

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Posted: 02/14/12 08:13am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I am new to 5th wheel RVing and have never pulled a 5th wheel trailer and thus have some very elementary questions, answers to which I would be most grateful.
(I have a 2012 F250 4x4 crew cab diesel with 156.2" wheel base, 81.8" bed length and factory 5th wheel prep package)
1. How important is it to have a slider type hitch that will allow 90 degree swing? I would like to keep the weight down.
2. What brand(s) hitch would you recommend?

* This post was edited 02/14/12 12:02pm by maxsuperduty *

sandpiper1

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Posted: 02/14/12 09:29pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hey Max. These threads always seem to turn into a weight calculating nightmare. I will answer based on experience. I have a new 2012 Montana 346LBQ. It weighs 1,000lbs less than the one you are looking at and has 350lbs less hitch weight. Those are just based on what is published. It is a few inches shorter than the one you looked at. Most of the guys on here that tell you that you have to add all the weights because of this and that do not know that Keystone publishes the weight of the trailer with a full tank of fresh water and everything the unit comes equipped with. Its written right on the official plate on the trailer with your tires sizes, weights, and axel ratings. So, I would consider the published empty weight as a good starting point. As you can see in my signature I tow mine with a little older F350 Dually. Without getting into all the calculations, legal arguments, and so on, I will say you can not tow that rig comfortably with that truck. Even if the published numbers say you can, I know you have the HP, it's just too much pin weight no matter what you do. I towed a 36' that weighed 10,600 empty for years with an F250 and always thought it wasn't enough truck. Now with the dually, I feel that I am right on the edge with the new 5er. Good luck with the shopping but I would look at something in the less than 11,000lb claimed dry shipping weight.


2004 F350 DRW PSD Crew Cab Lariat LWB FX4, B&W 5th Hitch, 2012 Montana Mountaineer 346LBQ


joendeb92

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Posted: 02/15/12 01:12am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I would be very careful, Don't believe everything a salesperson tells you. I have had ford for years. The issues that you will find is bigger isn't always better. The Bigger the 5er, the bigger the tow vehicle must be, then more heavy duty tires and rims. Even though the 5er may be a great deal. Buy a 5er that can be safely towed and STOPPED by your current tow vehicle.

sandpiper1

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Posted: 02/15/12 05:50am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

maxsuperduty wrote:

I am new to 5th wheel RVing and have never pulled a 5th wheel trailer and thus have some very elementary questions, answers to which I would be most grateful.
(I have a 2012 F250 4x4 crew cab diesel with 156.2" wheel base, 81.8" bed length and factory 5th wheel prep package)
1. How important is it to have a slider type hitch that will allow 90 degree swing? I would like to keep the weight down.
2. What brand(s) hitch would you recommend?


I never needed a slider when I had my short box F250, but it depends on the 5er and the pinbox. The Keystone Montana with the "turn radius" deal would not require you to have a slider hitch. Someone will tell you the exact opposite in a few minutes. I prefer my B&W hitch over any I have used or seen, but I don't know if they make it to fit the new Ford system yet. I think the Reese that Ford sells would be a good hitch. You have to remember that almost every answer you get on here will be biased toward whatever brand the person is using at the time. You will get some great input, just wade through it and decide what works best for you. You will noteice that it didn't take long for your thread to go from answering your question to a debate among people who answered over who is right and wrong. I guess that is what makes the forum work. It spurs ideas and thoughts and provides information. Enjoy.

sandpiper1

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Posted: 02/15/12 06:03am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x4ord wrote:

Lantley wrote:

If a truck is within all of its ratings it's safe. F-150, F250, 2500, 3500HD, DRW,SRW, V-6, V-10, etc.
The towing parameters are designed to take the subjectivity and guesswork out of the equation. The public just needs to learn to respect and abide by the equations.
All of the big 3 have engineering departments that calculate the parameters for each and every truck in each and every configuration.
Yet the consumers still want to challenge the ratings and claim if you do this and add that than everything is OK.
I don't subscribe to the thought that the sky will fall if you exceed a tow rating, however I do believe that a vehicle that is within all of its parameters will tow better than one that is not.


Part of the problem with the way that trucks are rated is that it is only based partially on engineering and largely on marketing. I agree that if a truck is towing within its ratings it is usually safe. I don't, however, believe that a truck towing over its ratings is necessarily unsafe.

For example in the Ford line up of trucks you can order a F350 SRW with a GVWR of 11500 lbs. As a no charge option you can order the 10,000 lb GVWR package which consists of a different door sticker and reduces your GVWR by 1500 lbs. Obviously there is more to GVWR's than engineering.


I agree with you. I think there is some level of smoke and mirrors. Its funny, a lot of people will tell you not to exceed the GCVWR because it is so important. I believe in following all the guidelines but if this number is so important why isn't it part of the info on that door tag. The DOT doesn't seem too concerned either. I walked into the Kansas DOT Monday to register my truck. It was registered for 20k lbs. I increased it to 24k without any question. There was no check to see if it was ok or anything, just charged me more money and printed it up. Now my tag says 24M which makes it legal for me to weigh 24k. I know someone is about to say that if I get stopped and weighed and I am over the rating posted by Ford in their sales brochure I will get ticketed so go ahead.

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