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Open Roads Forum  >  Dinghy Towing

 > No Brakes

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RJsfishin

Winston Or.

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Posted: 02/20/12 02:03pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thats it,....I had to whoa up perdy fast a couple times.....no bigee. Was I pushing harder on the pedal because of the extra weight ?? Well I would certainly think so. Could have I pushed harder ? Yes,....a lot harder.

I like to think that with or w/o the toad, I could lock up all 6 wheels if I ever needed to. How many have ever locked up all 6 wheels at 60mph ?
How fast would I be stopping if I could locked up all 6 wheels ?? Would it be fast enough to satisfy all the states saftey requirement,......most of which BTW, do not require brakes on toads. Why don't they reguire brakes on toads ? Could it be because in most cases a MH is capable of stopping the added weight within the safe distances ? After the 2200 mile trip, I feel I am well w/in the law, and in no way any danger to others.


Rich

'01 31' Rexall Vision, Generac 5.5k, 1000 watt Honda, PD 9245 conv, 300 watts Solar, 400 watt inv, 2 12v batts, ammeters, led voltmeters all over the place, KingDome/sat, 2 Oly Cat heaters, and towing a Dodge GCV, or a Lowe bass boat, or a Kawi Mule.


mowermech

Billings, MT

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Posted: 02/20/12 02:38pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

For your future reference, here is the Montana law:

"61-9-312. Performance ability of brakes. On a dry, hard, approximately level stretch of highway free from loose material, a motor vehicle or combination of vehicles, upon application of the service brake, must be capable of stopping at a speed of 20 miles an hour within the following distances:
(1) 25 feet for passenger motor vehicles, except buses and pioneer vehicles;
(2) 40 feet for buses, trucks, and tractor trucks;
(3) 45 feet for motor vehicles registered or qualified to be registered as pioneer vehicles under 61-3-411(2)(a) when equipped with two-wheel brakes or 25 feet when equipped with four-wheel brakes;
(4) 40 feet for all combinations of vehicles; and
(5) 30 feet for motorcycles, quadricycles, and motor-driven cycles."

Paragraph (4) applies.


CM1, USN (RET)
2002 Fleetwood Southwind 32V, Ford V10
Toad 1: '06 PT Cruiser, Kar Kaddy dolly
Toy (and Toad 2): 2001 Dodge QC SWB, 360 Magnum, Auto, 4X4
"When seconds count, help is only minutes away!"

mowermech

Billings, MT

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Posted: 02/22/12 07:40pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"Here in California and I THINK Oregon, you have to have a braking system for anything over 1500 lbs."

I think you will find that that applies to TRAILERS. Check the "Definitions" portion of the law and see exactly what a "trailer" is in your state. You just might find that a towed motor vehicle is not legally a "trailer".
However, CA does have a "Performance Standard" very similar to the one posted for MT. It should be similar, they are both taken almost verbatim from the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards!

1rickw

redwood City, CA USA

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Posted: 02/22/12 07:17pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

There are some states that do not require ANY braking system. Here in California and I THINK Oregon, you have to have a braking system for anything over 1500 lbs. That means that just about any car needs one. I use a brake buddy with my Honda Fit, which weighs 2395 lbs. I set the BB to only engage if I really have to hit the brakes hard. I don't notice any difference when towing and not towing, but it is there just in case. I always try to keep hundreds of feet clear in front and travel around 55 mph.


2004 Jamboree 26Q + great wife to travel with

MPond

Thousand Oaks, CA

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Posted: 02/22/12 06:50pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mowermech wrote:

For your future reference, here is the Montana law:

"61-9-312. Performance ability of brakes. On a dry, hard, approximately level stretch of highway free from loose material, a motor vehicle or combination of vehicles, upon application of the service brake, must be capable of stopping at a speed of 20 miles an hour within the following distances:
(1) 25 feet for passenger motor vehicles, except buses and pioneer vehicles;
(2) 40 feet for buses, trucks, and tractor trucks;
(3) 45 feet for motor vehicles registered or qualified to be registered as pioneer vehicles under 61-3-411(2)(a) when equipped with two-wheel brakes or 25 feet when equipped with four-wheel brakes;
(4) 40 feet for all combinations of vehicles; and
(5) 30 feet for motorcycles, quadricycles, and motor-driven cycles."

Paragraph (4) applies.


California has a performance standard for RVs that is very similar to Montana.


2003 Country Coach Intrigue, Cummins ISL 400
Toad: 2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (LJ) toad, with just a few mods...

Other rig: 2005 Chevy Silverado 3500 Duramax Dually / Next Level 38CK Fifth-wheel Toy Hauler w/ quads, sand rail, etc...

MPond

Thousand Oaks, CA

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Posted: 02/22/12 11:48pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mowermech wrote:

"Here in California and I THINK Oregon, you have to have a braking system for anything over 1500 lbs."

I think you will find that that applies to TRAILERS. Check the "Definitions" portion of the law and see exactly what a "trailer" is in your state. You just might find that a towed motor vehicle is not legally a "trailer".
However, CA does have a "Performance Standard" very similar to the one posted for MT. It should be similar, they are both taken almost verbatim from the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards!


That is correct. There is a direct quote in the CA DMV handbook that says toads are not the same as trailers, and supplemental brakes are not required if the RV meets the performance standards.

I'll try to find it and post a link if I do.

mowermech

Billings, MT

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Posted: 02/23/12 06:39am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

gotsmart wrote:

also, V C Section 26454 Control and Stopping Requirements lists the maximum braking distance by weight class of the towing vehicle.


Interesting. If the towing vehicle is over 10,000 GVWR, the stopping distance is 50 feet, not 40 feet as it is in Montana!

MPond

Thousand Oaks, CA

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Posted: 02/23/12 02:25pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

But if you ask any of the auxillary brake manufacturers, they'll tell you that California & Montana require brakes on the toad.

For example:
BrakeBuddy.com implies that anything over 1,500 lbs in California, and over 3,000 lbs in Montana requires Aux. brakes.

Roadmaster Braking Laws shows a similar map with the same towing laws - 1,500 lbs for California and 3,000 lbs for Montana.

Both of these sites (like many others out there) neglect to tell you that these are Trailer towing laws, not vehicle towing laws.

I'm not advocating that anyone tow without toad brakes; I'm simply advocating that we base these discussions on accurate information.

MPond

Thousand Oaks, CA

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Posted: 02/23/12 12:02am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I found the CA Vehicle Code that shows that trailer brakes are not required for "Towed Motor Vehicles":

V C Section 26458 Baking System Towing Vehicles

CVC 26458 wrote:

26458. (a) The braking system on every motor vehicle used to tow another vehicle shall be so arranged that one control on the towing vehicle shall, when applied, operate all the service brakes on the power unit and combination of vehicles when either or both of the following conditions exist:

(1) The towing vehicle is required to be equipped with power brakes.

(2) The towed vehicle is required to be equipped with brakes and is equipped with power brakes.

(b) Subdivision (a) shall not be construed to prohibit motor vehicles from being equipped with an additional control to be used to operate the brakes on the trailer or trailers.

(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following combinations of vehicles, if the combination of vehicles meets the stopping distance requirements of Section 26454:

(1) Vehicles engaged in driveaway-towaway operations.

(2) Disabled vehicles, while being towed.

(3) Towed motor vehicles.

(4) Trailers equipped with inertially controlled brakes which are designed to be applied automatically upon breakaway from the towing vehicle and which are capable of stopping and holding the trailer stationary for not less than 15 minutes.



And this article from the CA DMV says that breakaway brakes are not required either:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl648/dl648pt11.htm

In the 3rd Paragraph from the end they wrote:

If you use a tow bar, safety chains are required, but a breakaway switch is not. Fully operational tail, brake, and turn signal lights are required on the towed car.


* This post was edited 02/23/12 12:11am by MPond *

gotsmart

Aberdeen, WA

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Posted: 02/23/12 01:04am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

also, V C Section 26454 Control and Stopping Requirements lists the maximum braking distance by weight class of the towing vehicle.


2005 Cruise America 28R (Four Winds 28R) on a 2004 Ford E450 SD 6.8L V10 4R100
2009 smart fortwo Passion with Roadmaster "Falcon 2" towbar & tail light kit - pictures

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