NC Hauler wrote: ..As stated several times in here, but not paid any attention to is the fact that air bags do not add one more pound of extra GVWR to one's truck....They level the load, they may make the towing a little smoother, but they are not the same as an extra leaf spring..Read the disclaimers from the manufacturers of the Air Bags we put on our trucks, it's spelled out in black and white. I used them on an 03 2500HD to level the load of a 14,,500# GVW 5th wheel..leveled the load, but that was it, I was over my GVWR by about 900#,. They work great for what the manufacturer of the airbags made them for....but it isn't to add more cargo carrying capacity...just used to level it.
Yes, all the paperwork in an air spring kit will have those warning, but the reasons are only to eliminate litigation and or other legal entanglements due to our evolved societal penchant for avoiding personal responsibility and application of common sense to a situation.
That's funny because GVW is all about the liability of the manufacturer.
GM list their liabilities ratings (towing parameters) because they do not want to be responsible if the truck is overloaded. The air bag makers give liability and use warnings because they also don't want to be responsible, yet somehow some feel they know the product better than the companies that designed them in the first place
Go figure. That litigation you refer to happens when someone has an accident with an overloaded truck. I concur the GVW may have nothing to do with the root cause of the accident, but if the plaintiffs find out there was some sort of infraction or potential overload issue one becomes any easy target.
I don't want to preach gloom and doom. I don't believe the sky will fall. But as mentioned in the quoted text above, the litigation factor is real. All that paperwork is not included in the box just to give printers something to do. You can believe litigation on these issues goes on everyday.
There are plenty of lawyers with nothing better to do than to take on an overloaded truck case. Yes we need tort reform but that is another subject.
That paperwork gives the air bag makers a way to avoid litigation. Hopefully those who believe ignoring GVW is OK will have some paperwork as well.
Maybe one can use this thread as exhibit A, to show GVW is just a made up number with no real meaning
I agree. It's kind of like that rule at campgrounds " all dogs must be on a leash". Yet some people don't think it applies to THEIR dog.
An average civil attorney will eat your lunch. LINK
...Rick, now you know nothing like that has never happened. It's all made up, no one knows anyone that was ever in an accident and got in trouble for it....though a couple of years back there was an accident on I40 involving a man, his son and daughter, believe they were from Michigan....it was a clear day and he was towing a TT with his SUV, made a maneuver to pass someone and pulled back into his lane, lost control, wrecked and his son died in the accident... I'm sure it can be "googled" looking up camper wreck on I 40, Asheville NC.
Nothing happened that I'm aware of, other than one investigation suggested that the TT was too heavy for the SUV...not my findings, the Highway patrol, and his son was killed in the wreck...I never take any thing for granted...I won't go out of my way pushing the limits of something just because I "figure" nothing bad could come of it.
Jim & Kathy
2013 Dodge 3500DRW Longhorn 4X4/CC/LB/Aisin tranny/4:10/Cummins: 385HP/850TQ
06 HR Presidential Suite 37RLQ/ 4 slide/ dual pane windows/Winegard SK3005 Satellite/Splendide XC2100 W/D
Boxers;Buddy& Sheba II
USAF 71-75 Nam Vet
You are looking for someone to agree with you and say they did it and everything is fine. You want to exceed the ratings of a 2500 and 3500 SRW and have someone validate your idea. There are warning labels and paperwork with the air bags stating you cannot increase your capacity by using them,but you feel that paperwork doesn't apply to your situation.
Since you have it all figured out why bother asking?
What you getting are responses from others saying don't do it, but it appears that is not what you want to hear.
At what point is a 2500 overloaded? 1000 over GVW, 1500 over, or a full 2000# over? Is it even possible to overload it? After all you can add air bags and tires. But in your case air bags and tires won't put you within ratings of the next class of trucks. If GVW is that useless/meaningless why go through the motion of even posting them.
Pretending to adhere to GVW ratings by using air bags is pointless. Seeking validation from others is even more pointless. But I'm sure if you ask/persist enough someone will say it's OK. Someone will claim you only need to worry about axle ratings. Which begs the question, "Why do manufacturers even bother to post the other parameters if only axle rating matter"?
Try asking how many had to upgrade their trucks because they got a bigger fiver? You may get more responses.
07'Duramax dually,12'Open Range 399BHS
Hawkshead TPMS,Hensley BD3,Killerbee exhaust brake
Blue Ox Bedsaver,air bags w/compressor
Arvika pin box bike rack,Bak Flip tonneau cover
5500 Onan LP,EMS-HW-50
14'Porta Bote w/8.0 Nissan
Vu Cube 2000,Splendide 2000S
Wow!!! You guys are really having a go at this. Please reread my original statement and comment if you have tried these mods, and how did it work?
I couldn't give a******less about lawyers and accidents and who might think this is a crime for making a machine more stout than the OEM built it.
The axles, brakes, and frame, (less one leaf spring) is identical to the 3500. Again, I'm asking about adding airbags (which will add to the GVRW) wider (3500 wheels) and 265 tires.
My rear axle with the DW and I and a full tank of fuel, and hitch, weighs in at 3300#'s. My front axle is at 4100#'s. Total = 7400#'s. If I go with a fiver with a pin weight of 2700#'s, it puts me over my sticker weight of max 9200#'s, and will put me a little over the 3500 trucks 9900#'s limit with the mods.
Now, again, if there's anyone out there that has beefed up their 2500 to a 3500 Chevy in this matter, I would really like to know how it's working out for you.
As for you "Barn Yarders" I'll be sure to PM you before I hit the road....
Not sure your link is legit, but this isn't a towing issue, as I have plenty, but a pin weight issue.
Heck, If you're towing a 7000# fiver with a F550 Ford, and someone pulls out in front of you, there's going to be a big mess. Doesn't have a darn thing to do with the pin weight.
I never, and would never think about exceeding the combined towing capacity.
I'm thinking more of mechanical damage to my TV due to pin weight.
So far as I know with the GM trucks, these are the differences between a 2500 truck and a 3500SRW truck with the camper package.
Wheels. The 3500 wheels are an inch wider and have about 400 lbs higher weight rating, each.
Tires. The 3500 tires are 265's with about 3500 lb weight rating, each.
Rear overload springs. The 3500 adds the upper overload leafs and frame bumpers.
Rear sway bar. The 3500 adds the rear sway bar.
Front springs. The 3500 with the camper package has heavier front springs than the 2500 without camper package.
My opinion: If you add the 3500SRW wheels, tires, rear overload springs, front springs and rear sway bar, you now have, for all practical purposes, a 3500SRW truck with a 2500 name badge on it.
However, you must upgrade all of those parts to achieve the 3500 weight carrying capacity. Foregoing the wheels and just upgrading the tires accomplishes nothing. Adding air bags instead of overload springs and sway bar doesn't accomplish the 3500 payload capacity either. All that does is level the 2500 truck.
So, swap the wheels and tires and add the overload springs and sway bar and you'll be safe reliable to use the truck up to the 3500SRW's factory GVWR and RGAWR. This is assuming the brakes, axle and main leaf packs are the same between the 2 trucks, which I believe they are. I don't see a need to add the heavier front springs, unless you are expecting your loaded front axle weight to be more than the stock 2500 front springs are rated for.
Thanks for your response...or a stab at it anyway....
If you haven't tried the mods I have proposed, I don't think you have the know-how to respond.
Thanks anyhow.....
What I find puzzling is that I think you know better. You have done your homework. You seem to understand the parameters. But yet you want to pursue your overloading idea against your own logic. I don't have to have the know how or desire to overload my truck to understand why not to do it.
I am a capable swimmer, but I know how easily one can drown and avoid those situations.
I don't think I have to actually drown to understand what drowning is all about
My opinion won't change and I imagine yours won't either. Good Luck with your endeavor. Consider this post my last stab at it.
Skip N Barb Team wrote: Wow!!! You guys are really having a go at this. Please reread my original statement and comment if you have tried these mods, and how did it work?
I couldn't give a******less about lawyers and accidents and who might think this is a crime for making a machine more stout than the OEM built it.
The axles, brakes, and frame, (less one leaf spring) is identical to the 3500. Again, I'm asking about adding airbags (which will add to the GVRW) wider (3500 wheels) and 265 tires.
My rear axle with the DW and I and a full tank of fuel, and hitch, weighs in at 3300#'s. My front axle is at 4100#'s. Total = 7400#'s. If I go with a fiver with a pin weight of 2700#'s, it puts me over my sticker weight of max 9200#'s, and will put me a little over the 3500 trucks 9900#'s limit with the mods.
Now, again, if there's anyone out there that has beefed up their 2500 to a 3500 Chevy in this matter, I would really like to know how it's working out for you.
As for you "Barn Yarders" I'll be sure to PM you before I hit the road....
Skip-
I haven't done any modifications to my 2002 Chevy 2500HD, but in 2002 you couldn't buy a 3500SRW. When Chevy intro'd the 3500SRW in 2005, I spent hours researching what was different on my truck vs. the 2005 3500HD.
Guess what? It was the tires/wheels, and the rear springs!
Every other component was verified either through engineering data from GM web sites, or individual replacement part numbers.
If you upgrade your truck just remember you have the engineering, you just won't have the badging.
Oh, and yes, I have posted this on this board multiple times, but apparently it has been too long ago, and lost to history.
If GM would have offered a 3500SRW in 2002 that is what I would be driving. But since I never get over my 2500HD's GAWR, I don't worry about it anymore.
As far as your set up, I would insist in not exceeding the tire's load rating. If you do that all will be fine.
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