Quote: Unless I missed something Robert the E van is not going away anytime soon is it? The "all new Transit commercial van" is not going to replace it right away, looks like they will test the waters to see if there is any market here in the Sates. I don't think there will be but they are still selling the junk sprinters here so what do I know?
Don
Don, you raise a very good question, that Ford should have answered during the announcement of the Transit.Ford has registered the T150, T250. T350, T450 and T550 names as models of the Transit to be used by the North American version. This has nothing to do with the European version. As I see it ,the Transit in the US will be a lot more than a Sprinter equivalent.
Ford has not given the WHY?,WHAT? or WHEN? on the Transit. WHY: You are going to replace the best selling VAN in the US with a European Van, that the general public and by statements issued by Ford US staff ,seem to have little idea about. WHAT: So it comes as a T150 to T550, what are these? general specification, possible engines any new features? WHEN: Timetables for the replacement of the E Series
AS to the T-150 - T550 versions, you probably have heard of our F-150 - F-550 pickups, and my guess is that Ford wants to call the lightest duty van the T-150, with T-250 a slightly heavier version (higher GVWR and thus higher cargo rating) going higher still to the single or dual rear wheel versions on the T-350, with only dual rear wheels on the T-450 and perhaps following the E-550 with a T-550 version with 19.5" rims if the motorhome industry demands such a vehicle.
Yes I have seen a 14' box van built on a diesel equipped E-550 chassis van, it was owned by a floor tile installer, and I think has a 18,000 GVWR, with 6 - 19.5" rims. I think Ford expected the motorhome manufactures to jump on the new E-550 chassis once it came out, however they kept their designs with the E-450 and it's 14,050 GVWR. So Ford dropped the poor selling E-550 after only about a year in production.
It was mentioned several times "Why doesn't Ford Update the E-series" Well here is your update, now it will look similar to the European van. Sure the E-350 dually cab and chassis will still be made in Ohio, alongside the E-450 for a few years (perhaps 5?) after the 2013 Transit comes out. But I can see that changing to a Transit looking cab, using the same doors, and front end.
Any idea how expensive it is to produce a door jig? The thing that stamps the sheet metal for the door exterior? You need a left and right hand door, and all the stamped parts in the middle of the door, it is actually quite complicated, and cost of that tooling (for 2 doors) would be around a million dollars. And they need to keep replacing all this tooling every 350,000 doors, or with each change in model style that requires a new shape door.
In 1983, VW decided that they wanted to change the exterior shape of the Rabbit while keeping the same door shape, and went to a lot of trouble to make sure the new design accommodated the 1981/82 doors. Then when production started, they decided the old 82 door tooling was worn out, and had to be replaced anyway.
So whoever is doing the planning at Ford has already decided that the 2013 tooling needs to be made for the 2013 E-450 to be built in Ohio, and has that tooling already in production, probably over 50% done, and will make a decision shortly on what tooling must be made to keep making doors and cabs for the 2015 cab and chassis vans in Ohio. That 2016 cab and chassis tooling must be started and in production very soon, so that it will be finished before May of 2015, and be ready to install on the production lines during the summer change over from 2015 model year to 2016 model year parts.
Ford already knows exactly what the 2016 E-450 will look like, and no more design changes can be made to it, all the plans have been given over to the engineering department, they are designing the tooling, and making plans on how to produce the new design (or keep production of the old design for another year.)
I guess part of the reason that Ford and other companies move so slowly is that it takes 4 years to get a new design into production, with tooling to be made, ect.
And also the company does not want to invest millions of dollars changing the shape of the vehicle each 2-3 years, when basically the interior is going to stay about the same, a giant cargo box.
Moving to the Transit design is the first "Huge" design change since the engine went from between the passengers to in front in the late 60's, followed by a change in 75 to the much larger engine compartment to accommodate the 460" engine, and then it changed the front end fenders again in the 90's.
The cycle time for a design for passenger cars is around 4 years.
However, for commercial trucks, it is longer because of several key issues.
First, things just cannot be changed on the fly.
What may appear to be a petty little change in sheet metal affects many add-on, upfitters who rely on stable specs to put their stuff on.
That is why the interior of the E series have not changed materially in over 20 years.
I very proudly show people the "1996" stampings on the doors of my truck --- to show how I can steal a pair of doors off a wreck... and grin... it fits.
May matter not much to most people in consumer world, but if you are hanging on it a tool rack, accessories, wiring, etc. it is nice to know a new truck means no problems relocating the stuff.
That also goes for racking, headlights, sirens, wigwags, console for radio, upfitter buttons, machinery, etc.
Imagine there are thousands of little businesses out there that depend on the vehicle to work --- for work --- that often mount many times the value of the truck on the truck.
A bucket truck easily costs 2X or more the value of the truck itself.
What about a truck mounting generators, etc.?
Or fully fitted for high tech plumbing?
Most of the competitors that went into this market dont get it... and dont undestand how important it is TO STAY THE SAME.
That is why I am not optimistic about the Transit--- it will be years before it is accepted.
Quote: That is why the interior of the E series have not changed materially in over 20 years.
Dude, are you on DRUGS?! The 2012 Econoline interior is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT when compared to the 1992, or even the 2002 Econoline! I'm not sure one single part is the same! Some unseen parts probably are (seat structure, probably the column & dash bracing, wiring), but easily 98% of the interior is different.
NJot to mention the fact that the entire front clip changed for 2008.
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with 3 nutty cats
My beloved St. Bernard, Marm, lost him 1/2/12
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion
Aside from trying to get the Transit Connect into the NYC Taxi competition (which they lost to Nissan), incredibly to the NV200, they haven't done much to promote this vehicle.
Since it is imported from Turkey, in an awkward arrangement where seats are installed in all trucks (even cargo) then removed to bypass the tariff, with euro spec keys, and many non standard features, it is easy for everyone to see Ford really dont have skin in the game.
Losing the NYC taxi contract, by entering a substandard replacement for the Crown Vic (which owned the market) is.. unconsciousable.
The example set by the Transit Connect do not bode well for the Transit.
Then the issue of Ecoboost for the Transit:
Quote: The problem with the EcoBoost engines is they don't appear to generate much in the way of fuel savings. Take, for example, a Ford Edge. Its 3.5-liter V6 model is EPA rated at 19-mpg city and 27-mpg highway while the 2.0-liter EcoBoost is rated at 21-mpg city and 30-mpg highway – a 10 percent fuel savings.
On the surface that is fairly respectable. Over the course of a year, according to EPA numbers, the average consumer would save But – and isn't there always a but? – the Edge EcoBoost costs a $1000 more. Your fuel savings are going to be $231 annually, which means EcoBoost doesn't start paying for itself until the fifth year of ownership.
Here's another "but" to add. The EcoBoost is an amazing engine. It needs to show greater than 10 percent fuel economy savings to truly wow the car-buying public, though. Get improvements in the 15 to 20 percent range and it's a whole new ballgame.
Golden HVAC wrote: AS to the T-150 - T550 versions, you probably have heard of our F-150 - F-550 pickups, and my guess is that Ford wants to call the lightest duty van the T-150, with T-250 a slightly heavier version (higher GVWR and thus higher cargo rating) going higher still to the single or dual rear wheel versions on the T-350, with only dual rear wheels on the T-450 and perhaps following the E-550 with a T-550 version with 19.5" rims if the motorhome industry demands such a vehicle.
That is my point. Why Ford has not spelled out what they are going to do? You are replacing the best selling Van and people have to GUESS what they are doing?. Bad Management. More than heard, people use F250-F450's to tow SOME Caravans and 5th Wheelers in Australia.
NewsW wrote: Losing the NYC taxi contract, by entering a substandard replacement for the Crown Vic (which owned the market) is.. unconsciousable.
Here in Australia, the heavy handed manner of Ford US, is annoying a lot of people. They really need a HUGE shakeup as far as management and the culture of the Company .
Here in Australia, the heavy handed manner of Ford US, is annoying a lot of people. They really need a HUGE shakeup as far as management and the culture of the Company .
Don't Americans need to have special training to deal with the level headed Australians?
Was told they are level headed because they have chips on both shoulders!
NewsW wrote: Was told they are level headed because they have chips on both shoulders!
I have met a few here!
Seriously Ford seems to be pedaling backwards, the number of "stuff ups"is unbelievable. Not as bad as the Chevrolet "Volt Dance" in awfulness but getting closer to that low in management performance. Chevrolet Volt dance
That is my point. Why Ford has not spelled out what they are going to do? You are replacing the best selling Van and people have to GUESS what they are doing?.
I can tell you why. They do not wish to give the competition any clue as to what they are doing, AT ALL!
Long before the formal announcement, the suppliers have all figured out what is going on by what they are told to build (a year in advance).
Tooling, diemaking, testing, validation, all take time.
All the meanwhile, news dribbles out.
The fact is, Ford made a series of strategic not so smart moves, like killing the E series diesel.
Now, they got this dud called the Transit Connect that is poisoning the Transit brand.
Then they throw out the Transit to a skeptical market that saw Ford dictate the law (Ambulances must be diesels) and then just as readily throw the book out.
IMHO, they are making a bet the company deal that Americans will buy the Transit vs. the reliable and dated E series.
Quote: That is why the interior of the E series have not changed materially in over 20 years.
Dude, are you on DRUGS?! The 2012 Econoline interior is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT when compared to the 1992, or even the 2002 Econoline! I'm not sure one single part is the same! Some unseen parts probably are (seat structure, probably the column & dash bracing, wiring), but easily 98% of the interior is different.
NJot to mention the fact that the entire front clip changed for 2008.
I am driving a 2009 E-250 work van. The last 2000 E-250 had the same rack set-up, same place to put in the key, same fuel filler location, same seats, similar A/C controls, less 12 volt electrical sockets, same position for cruise control, same cargo area, and I think the same wheelbase.
I would guess it had a 5.4L engine, and this one is 4.6L. Not much has changed since the mid-90's when the hood shape changed a little bit, the cargo space stayed the same, with both long and short cargo areas.
By a big change, the 65 to 1970 changed a lot, in that the engine was moved forward to in front of the driver. In 75, all thoughts of a manual transmission where dropped, and the engine compartment enlarged to accommodate the 460" engine.
While the dashboard does change a little bit each year, and in 2005 they went from a throttle cable to electronic throttle position sensor, many things stayed the same.
I even think that a engine cover cup holder from 1975 will fit up to about 1987, while the 1990 will probably fit fine in my 2009 van. They did not change things to drastically. Sure they went to coil on plug engine, and improved the transmission, but grandma is not going to notice anything about that. The cargo box stayed the same.
Yes I am looking forward to a nice tall cargo box, like sold in Europe. It will also be very popular with the ambulance and delivery groups, as well as the HVAC crowd, who will like being able to stand up inside the van, while looking around at the racks for parts.
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