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More To See

San Diego Area

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Posted: 02/24/12 03:22am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joe0508 wrote:

Is it toward the top front?


Yes. It is the top front bolt hole that is not used on that passenger side bell crank.

In general, from my understanding of the wandering problem with the P30 chassis, it can be related to one or more of the following: (not that any particular one applies to your problem):

1. Worn out steering and suspension components, shocks, etc

2. Shop alignment not done correct for a P30 motorhome chassis

3. Design of the motorhome places too much weight on one corner or side.

4. Motorhome is way overloaded (sometimes the factory builds them with virtually no ability to carry anything without being severly overloaded.)

5. The overall length of the motorhome is too long for its wheelbase. (Too much motorhome hanging off behind the rear wheels.) When this ratio gets below maybe roughly 55 percent they tend to wander and be difficult to handle -- especially in some conditions such as cross winds. (the wheels on a 100 foot long motorhome should be at least 55 feet apart -- for a simple example)

There are some reports of people having to constantly steer their rig such that they are exhauste at the end of the day. Some posters think maybe these drivers are oversteering constantly. They say to just relax a bit. I personally find that idea hard to believe but it gets mentioned quite often and must be based in some knowledge.

These list will give you a frame of reference as you work through the problem and maybe look for some additional help.

One thing you might do is load up the rig as you travel and find someplace to weigh the rig. There are lots of truck scales all over the place capable of weighing your front and rear axle. You will get a printout on the ticket for front axle, rear axle, and the total weight of both. Cost would be maybe $10. You don't need a certified ticket which would cost a little more.

Better though is a shop that can do individual wheel weights. They will give you four individual weighings. left front, right front, left rear, and right rear. Cost maybe $120 (california price).

Note that it will be a rare motorhome with balanced weight on all four wheels. It just does not happen nor is it important so long as it is not severely out of balance on one corner.

* This post was edited 02/24/12 04:42am by More To See *


95 Winnebago Vectra 34 (P30/454)

Gale Hawkins

Murray, KY

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Posted: 02/24/12 06:57am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

More To See wrote:



5. The overall length of the motorhome is too long for its wheelbase. (Too much motorhome hanging off behind the rear wheels.) When this ratio gets below maybe roughly 55 percent they tend to wander and be difficult to handle -- especially in some conditions such as cross winds. (the wheels on a 100 foot long motorhome should be at least 55 feet apart -- for a simple example)

There are some reports of people having to constantly steer their rig such that they are exhauste at the end of the day. Some posters think maybe these drivers are oversteering constantly. They say to just relax a bit. I personally find that idea hard to believe but it gets mentioned quite often and must be based in some knowledge.


Your point of MH length to overhand ratio is dead on target. If this ratio is not in the ball park the other four points can never be addressed to the point of compensate for your #5 point.

I have followed MH's that it was clear the driver was oversteering and I did the same thing at first and still may do it for a few miles today. They are big and respond slower (due to being so long) to steering wheel input it is just natural to oversteer after driving say a car.

In my view it is the lack of grease (if they grease) and over steering that will wear out any front end parts on a P30. This is how a Steer Safe system installed on a new MH may reduce front end damage to oversteering.

Per your ratio example and I agree a 33' MH should have a WB of 220". That just does NOT happen. We are at 208" WB on our 32' MH. I have seen the same MH on the common 190" WB P30 chassis.

It is my take if one has a P30 with worn front end parts with less than 150,000 miles there may be a ratio problem that really can never be addressed.

If over steering has worn out the steering parts the root cause needs to be found if possible before spending more good money on the MH.

First thing I think before buying one needs to at least step off the WB and guessimate the ratio of that MH.

Same thing applies to towing an RV. A short Jeep is going to have more handling issues than a 1/2 ton crew cab long bed pick-up truck.

Gale Hawkins

Murray, KY

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Posted: 02/25/12 07:30am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mike brez wrote:

More To See wrote:

joe0508 wrote:

Is it toward the top front?


Yes. It is the top front bolt hole that is not used on that passenger side bell crank.

In general, from my understanding of the wandering problem with the P30 chassis, it can be related to one or more of the following: (not that any particular one applies to your problem):

1. Worn out steering and suspension components, shocks, etc

2. Shop alignment not done correct for a P30 motorhome chassis

3. Design of the motorhome places too much weight on one corner or side.

4. Motorhome is way overloaded (sometimes the factory builds them with virtually no ability to carry anything without being severly overloaded.)

5. The overall length of the motorhome is too long for its wheelbase. (Too much motorhome hanging off behind the rear wheels.) When this ratio gets below maybe roughly 55 percent they tend to wander and be difficult to handle -- especially in some conditions such as cross winds. (the wheels on a 100 foot long motorhome should be at least 55 feet apart -- for a simple example)

There are some reports of people having to constantly steer their rig such that they are exhauste at the end of the day. Some posters think maybe these drivers are oversteering constantly. They say to just relax a bit. I personally find that idea hard to believe but it gets mentioned quite often and must be based in some knowledge.

These list will give you a frame of reference as you work through the problem and maybe look for some additional help.

One thing you might do is load up the rig as you travel and find someplace to weigh the rig. There are lots of truck scales all over the place capable of weighing your front and rear axle. You will get a printout on the ticket for front axle, rear axle, and the total weight of both. Cost would be maybe $10. You don't need a certified ticket which would cost a little more.

Better though is a shop that can do individual wheel weights. They will give you four individual weighings. left front, right front, left rear, and right rear. Cost maybe $120 (california price).

Note that it will be a rare motorhome with balanced weight on all four wheels. It just does not happen nor is it important so long as it is not severely out of balance on one corner.




I would have to add that the front wheels being four feet on center is no help. Adding a rear trac bar to help the tail waging the dog. A P30 was ment to be a potato chip delivery truck not a rv.


True but four foot is a plus getting in and out of our drive way and other tight places.

Thankfully ours handles like a dream even at 75 MPH and meeting trucks. Steer Safe may help but I do not know but the PO said it was the $350 he spend on the MH the 10 years he owned it.

Another plus going of it is the fact its WB is 208" with a 32' house.

harold1946

Surprise Arizona

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Posted: 02/25/12 09:34am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mike brez wrote:

More To See wrote:

joe0508 wrote:

Is it toward the top front?


Yes. It is the top front bolt hole that is not used on that passenger side bell crank.

In general, from my understanding of the wandering problem with the P30 chassis, it can be related to one or more of the following: (not that any particular one applies to your problem):

1. Worn out steering and suspension components, shocks, etc

2. Shop alignment not done correct for a P30 motorhome chassis

3. Design of the motorhome places too much weight on one corner or side.

4. Motorhome is way overloaded (sometimes the factory builds them with virtually no ability to carry anything without being severly overloaded.)

5. The overall length of the motorhome is too long for its wheelbase. (Too much motorhome hanging off behind the rear wheels.) When this ratio gets below maybe roughly 55 percent they tend to wander and be difficult to handle -- especially in some conditions such as cross winds. (the wheels on a 100 foot long motorhome should be at least 55 feet apart -- for a simple example)

There are some reports of people having to constantly steer their rig such that they are exhauste at the end of the day. Some posters think maybe these drivers are oversteering constantly. They say to just relax a bit. I personally find that idea hard to believe but it gets mentioned quite often and must be based in some knowledge.

These list will give you a frame of reference as you work through the problem and maybe look for some additional help.

One thing you might do is load up the rig as you travel and find someplace to weigh the rig. There are lots of truck scales all over the place capable of weighing your front and rear axle. You will get a printout on the ticket for front axle, rear axle, and the total weight of both. Cost would be maybe $10. You don't need a certified ticket which would cost a little more.

Better though is a shop that can do individual wheel weights. They will give you four individual weighings. left front, right front, left rear, and right rear. Cost maybe $120 (california price).

Note that it will be a rare motorhome with balanced weight on all four wheels. It just does not happen nor is it important so long as it is not severely out of balance on one corner.




I would have to add that the front wheels being four feet on center is no help. Adding a rear trac bar to help the tail waging the dog. A P30 was ment to be a potato chip delivery truck not a rv.


You are mistaken. There are two P30 chassis built by GM. One is referred to as the "potato chip" and the other a motorhome chassis.
The first motorhome chassis was produced in 1950 and delivered to Fleetwood. From 1950 through 1999 the motorhome chassis went through many refinements and was last produced by Workhorse after purchasing the motorhome chassis line from GM in 1999. From 1999 through 2005 Workhorse produced the P32 chassis only, discontinuing the P30.


Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer toad

mike brez

milford ct

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Joined: 09/27/2002

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Posted: 02/25/12 07:14am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

More To See wrote:

joe0508 wrote:

Is it toward the top front?


Yes. It is the top front bolt hole that is not used on that passenger side bell crank.

In general, from my understanding of the wandering problem with the P30 chassis, it can be related to one or more of the following: (not that any particular one applies to your problem):

1. Worn out steering and suspension components, shocks, etc

2. Shop alignment not done correct for a P30 motorhome chassis

3. Design of the motorhome places too much weight on one corner or side.

4. Motorhome is way overloaded (sometimes the factory builds them with virtually no ability to carry anything without being severly overloaded.)

5. The overall length of the motorhome is too long for its wheelbase. (Too much motorhome hanging off behind the rear wheels.) When this ratio gets below maybe roughly 55 percent they tend to wander and be difficult to handle -- especially in some conditions such as cross winds. (the wheels on a 100 foot long motorhome should be at least 55 feet apart -- for a simple example)

There are some reports of people having to constantly steer their rig such that they are exhauste at the end of the day. Some posters think maybe these drivers are oversteering constantly. They say to just relax a bit. I personally find that idea hard to believe but it gets mentioned quite often and must be based in some knowledge.

These list will give you a frame of reference as you work through the problem and maybe look for some additional help.

One thing you might do is load up the rig as you travel and find someplace to weigh the rig. There are lots of truck scales all over the place capable of weighing your front and rear axle. You will get a printout on the ticket for front axle, rear axle, and the total weight of both. Cost would be maybe $10. You don't need a certified ticket which would cost a little more.

Better though is a shop that can do individual wheel weights. They will give you four individual weighings. left front, right front, left rear, and right rear. Cost maybe $120 (california price).

Note that it will be a rare motorhome with balanced weight on all four wheels. It just does not happen nor is it important so long as it is not severely out of balance on one corner.




I would have to add that the front wheels being four feet on center is no help. Adding a rear trac bar to help the tail waging the dog. A P30 was ment to be a potato chip delivery truck not a rv.


1998 36 foot Country Coach Magna #5499 Single slide
Gillig chassis with a series 40
02 Ford F250 7.3 with a few mods

Daveinet

il

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Posted: 02/24/12 11:10am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gale Hawkins wrote:

Daveinet wrote:

Are we to assume this is a P30 chassis? If so will this help?
http://www.bdub.net/manuals/P30/index.html


What name does the manual use for bell crank since I did not find that in the manual above?
There was an exploded view which showed the bellcrank in section 3. Don't remember what they called it, but I do remember it was not called a bellcrank. Don't recall exactly what page either, and my current connection is too slow to download it to the computer I'm using.


Dave

The Flying Fortress
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502 w/Howell/GM 16197427 ECM/Edelbrock MPFI,Thorley's & Magnaflows,
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joe0508

knoxville

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Posted: 02/25/12 03:21pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Its just odd to me that their would be a bolt hole in the right side bell crank and not serve any purpose.Their are no hole in the frame to even give the option to put a bolt their.If i didnt know any better i would say it was the wrong part for the chassis but if their are others with the same set up.I guess for some odd reason its on purpose.


joe money

Daveinet

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Posted: 02/25/12 04:01pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

And just for fun, there really is no such thing as a P30 chassis .

Ozlander

Rose Hill, Kansas

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Posted: 02/25/12 04:07pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joe0508 wrote:

Its just odd to me that their would be a bolt hole in the right side bell crank and not serve any purpose.Their are no hole in the frame to even give the option to put a bolt their.If i didnt know any better i would say it was the wrong part for the chassis but if their are others with the same set up.I guess for some odd reason its on purpose.


Drill a hole, stick a bolt in it.


Ozlander

06 Yukon XL
2001 Trail-Lite 7253


Ozlander

Rose Hill, Kansas

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Posted: 02/25/12 09:59am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

16 posts and all the OP asked was is it correct to have an empty hole in the bell crank.
Some people need to get a life.

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