The best way to explain the sulfur lubricity issue to you will be to get that cited article, written by experts who have high tech tribology equipment, to show you what it is doing.
If I have time, I will dredge up the article and post extracts for you.
Thanks, but don't bother usless it specifically addresses fuel delivery systems on diesel engines. We have already established that sulphur is not a lubricant. That seems to be the battle cry of those who insist additives are needed with ULSD.
Correction.
Sulphur content in diesel fuel prior to ULSD is in fact a lubricant.
The referenced article demonstrated how it is and why.
Additives are in fact needed with ULSD, but they are added (invisible to you) at the terminal.
As of Oct 1, 2010 all on/off road diesel sold in Canada was to be ULSD <15ppm Sulphur. ( June 1, 2006 on road diesel had to be ULSD <15ppm Sulphur sold in Canada)
Low luricicty diesel fuels (<15ppm Sulphur) are required to have lubricity additives added at the refinery in Canada (but not in the US).
Lab lubricity tests are poor (procedures) and may not show presence of additives.
Fuel viscosity effects nozzle spray patterns, filter restrictions and lubricity/wear.
Think about this... where there is bad fuel problems it not only effects one vehicle, it effects many vehicles. If only one vehicle is effected, then its due to dirt (poor maintenance, did I get dirt in the filter housing when changing the filter?) Did I routinely drain the fuel filter to check for water? Or poor quality filter(s).
Owning and operating a Diesel equipped vehicle requires alot more preventive maintenace then your run of the mill gasser. Some, if not all of the failures can be pinned on the owner/operator which one can blame on the manufacturers and sales hype, meaning did I really need a diesel powered truck? Or am I trying to keep up with Jones'?
I've seen way too many individuals jump in their diesel trucks, that have no idea when or how to change a fuel filter, check their oil, look under the hood for leaks etc.. Or even walk around their vehicle! Some of these people could't even change a tire let alone know where their jack is.
So, as for lubricity, us Canadians have you guys south of the 49th over a barrel as diesel fuel here is regulated, mandated to have the "ULSD" and added lubricity.
I suggest you'all come up north buy your fuel here and consume some real beer!
If you are down south and close to the border pop across and fill up in Mexico. They still run Low sulpher diesel, not ultra low sulpher diesel and the price is still under a buck a litre.
2003 Revolution 40C Class A. 2002 Vanguard 22 foot Class C. Diesel smart car Toad or pulling a 2009 Timeout Tent Trailer.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but rather by the moments that take our breath away.
As of Oct 1, 2010 all on/off road diesel sold in Canada was to be ULSD <15ppm Sulphur. ( June 1, 2006 on road diesel had to be ULSD <15ppm Sulphur sold in Canada)
Low luricicty diesel fuels (<15ppm Sulphur) are required to have lubricity additives added at the refinery in Canada (but not in the US).
Lab lubricity tests are poor (procedures) and may not show presence of additives.
Fuel viscosity effects nozzle spray patterns, filter restrictions and lubricity/wear.
Think about this... where there is bad fuel problems it not only effects one vehicle, it effects many vehicles. If only one vehicle is effected, then its due to dirt (poor maintenance, did I get dirt in the filter housing when changing the filter?) Did I routinely drain the fuel filter to check for water? Or poor quality filter(s).
Owning and operating a Diesel equipped vehicle requires alot more preventive maintenace then your run of the mill gasser. Some, if not all of the failures can be pinned on the owner/operator which one can blame on the manufacturers and sales hype, meaning did I really need a diesel powered truck? Or am I trying to keep up with Jones'?
I've seen way too many individuals jump in their diesel trucks, that have no idea when or how to change a fuel filter, check their oil, look under the hood for leaks etc.. Or even walk around their vehicle! Some of these people could't even change a tire let alone know where their jack is.
So, as for lubricity, us Canadians have you guys south of the 49th over a barrel as diesel fuel here is regulated, mandated to have the "ULSD" and added lubricity.
I suggest you'all come up north buy your fuel here and consume some real beer!
If you are down south and close to the border pop across and fill up in Mexico. They still run Low sulpher diesel, not ultra low sulpher diesel and the price is still under a buck a litre.
if it's not recommended to use the low sulphur diesel in the newer diesels, why would I want to fill up with something that isn't recommended to be used in my truck??
Jim & Kathy
2013 Dodge 3500DRW Longhorn 4X4/CC/LB/Aisin tranny/4:10/Cummins: 385HP/850TQ
06 HR Presidential Suite 37RLQ/ 4 slide/ dual pane windows/Winegard SK3005 Satellite/Splendide XC2100 W/D
Boxers;Buddy& Sheba II
USAF 71-75 Nam Vet
Sulphur content in diesel fuel prior to ULSD is in fact a lubricant.
Think your question is whether additional additives are needed at the consumer level.
Just another contradiction.
I don't have a question, I know that a) sulphur is not a lubricant, no matter the ratio and b) additional additives are not required in ULSD.
But if you are really a believer that sulphur is a lubricant I have a solution for you. Sulphur is readily available from a lot of sources. Dissolve about 2 ounces of it in the tank and you will get the 500ppm you think is so great. Better yet, combine it with another myth that has come up on the net. Dissolve the sulphur in a quart of ATF, then pour it into the tank. Run about 1000 gallons of treated fuel through the system and let us know how happy you are.
But if you are really a believer that sulphur is a lubricant I have a solution for you. Sulphur is readily available from a lot of sources. Dissolve about 2 ounces of it in the tank and you will get the 500ppm you think is so great. Better yet, combine it with another myth that has come up on the net. Dissolve the sulphur in a quart of ATF, then pour it into the tank. Run about 1000 gallons of treated fuel through the system and let us know how happy you are.
That is what separates a tribologist from the boys.
As of Oct 1, 2010 all on/off road diesel sold in Canada was to be ULSD <15ppm Sulphur. ( June 1, 2006 on road diesel had to be ULSD <15ppm Sulphur sold in Canada)
Low luricicty diesel fuels (<15ppm Sulphur) are required to have lubricity additives added at the refinery in Canada (but not in the US).
Lab lubricity tests are poor (procedures) and may not show presence of additives.
Fuel viscosity effects nozzle spray patterns, filter restrictions and lubricity/wear.
Think about this... where there is bad fuel problems it not only effects one vehicle, it effects many vehicles. If only one vehicle is effected, then its due to dirt (poor maintenance, did I get dirt in the filter housing when changing the filter?) Did I routinely drain the fuel filter to check for water? Or poor quality filter(s).
Owning and operating a Diesel equipped vehicle requires alot more preventive maintenace then your run of the mill gasser. Some, if not all of the failures can be pinned on the owner/operator which one can blame on the manufacturers and sales hype, meaning did I really need a diesel powered truck? Or am I trying to keep up with Jones'?
I've seen way too many individuals jump in their diesel trucks, that have no idea when or how to change a fuel filter, check their oil, look under the hood for leaks etc.. Or even walk around their vehicle! Some of these people could't even change a tire let alone know where their jack is.
So, as for lubricity, us Canadians have you guys south of the 49th over a barrel as diesel fuel here is regulated, mandated to have the "ULSD" and added lubricity.
I suggest you'all come up north buy your fuel here and consume some real beer!
If you are down south and close to the border pop across and fill up in Mexico. They still run Low sulpher diesel, not ultra low sulpher diesel and the price is still under a buck a litre.
if it's not recommended to use the low sulphur diesel in the newer diesels, why would I want to fill up with something that isn't recommended to be used in my truck??
Good point. It was directed at those of us with pre 2007 or european diesels, of which we have 4.
As of Oct 1, 2010 all on/off road diesel sold in Canada was to be ULSD <15ppm Sulphur. ( June 1, 2006 on road diesel had to be ULSD <15ppm Sulphur sold in Canada)
Low luricicty diesel fuels (<15ppm Sulphur) are required to have lubricity additives added at the refinery in Canada (but not in the US).
Lab lubricity tests are poor (procedures) and may not show presence of additives.
Fuel viscosity effects nozzle spray patterns, filter restrictions and lubricity/wear.
Think about this... where there is bad fuel problems it not only effects one vehicle, it effects many vehicles. If only one vehicle is effected, then its due to dirt (poor maintenance, did I get dirt in the filter housing when changing the filter?) Did I routinely drain the fuel filter to check for water? Or poor quality filter(s).
Owning and operating a Diesel equipped vehicle requires alot more preventive maintenace then your run of the mill gasser. Some, if not all of the failures can be pinned on the owner/operator which one can blame on the manufacturers and sales hype, meaning did I really need a diesel powered truck? Or am I trying to keep up with Jones'?
I've seen way too many individuals jump in their diesel trucks, that have no idea when or how to change a fuel filter, check their oil, look under the hood for leaks etc.. Or even walk around their vehicle! Some of these people could't even change a tire let alone know where their jack is.
So, as for lubricity, us Canadians have you guys south of the 49th over a barrel as diesel fuel here is regulated, mandated to have the "ULSD" and added lubricity.
I suggest you'all come up north buy your fuel here and consume some real beer!
If you are down south and close to the border pop across and fill up in Mexico. They still run Low sulpher diesel, not ultra low sulpher diesel and the price is still under a buck a litre.
if it's not recommended to use the low sulphur diesel in the newer diesels, why would I want to fill up with something that isn't recommended to be used in my truck??
Good point. It was directed at those of us with pre 2007 or european diesels, of which we have 4.
Offline
