RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tow Vehicles: 2 stroke oil in diesel

RV Blog

  |  

RV Sales

  |  

Campgrounds

  |  

RV Parks

  |  

RV Club

  |  

RV Buyers Guide

  |  

Roadside Assistance

  |  

Extended Service Plan

  |  

RV Travel Assistance

  |  

RV Credit Card

  |  

RV Loans

Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Help and Support  |  Contact

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > 2 stroke oil in diesel

This Topic Is Closed  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 10  
Prev  |  Next
Sponsored By:
NewsW

US

Senior Member

Joined: 02/06/2012

View Profile



Posted: 03/03/12 09:01am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JPhelps wrote:


Nothing in life is perfect. There has not been a know specific problem until CP-4. Just because Bosch screwed up with its CP-4 doesn't make the test irrelevant.
Bosch got the privilege of designing its CP-4 system with the fuel specs in hand. Owners of older fuel systems designed for the older spec fuel kinda got screwed and I think that is what the OP had in mind when he started this thread.



I am afraid the problem is not just Bosch and CP 4 --- it is much more serious as you note.

Pre 2007 LSD fuel did the job fine, and post 2007 we had to rely on additives --- routinely added by either the refinery or fuel terminal.

If there is an issue with additives not doing the job, or being reactive, we got a muuuuuch bigger problem than CP 4.

FYI, look at the diesel place study again:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728


Dieselplace test wrote:

How Diesel Fuel Is Evaluated For Lubricating Ability:

Diesel fuel and other fluids are tested for lubricating ability using a device called a “High Frequency Reciprocating Rig” or HFRR. The HFRR is currently the Internationally accepted, standardized method to evaluate fluids for lubricating ability.



The testing outfit, Southwest Research, is completely reputable.

Their mandate was to administer ONE test. The HFFR test.

Note ASTM concerns with respect to repeatability and error bars.

What I am questioning, and in fact, what ASTM D975 committee members, whom I do not know and do not speak to, are questioning, is the validity of that test.

If the doubts are confirmed --- we got a mess in diesel land far bigger than Bosch CP4.

45Ricochet

North Idaho

Senior Member

Joined: 09/04/2009

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 03/03/12 07:50pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gunpilot77 wrote:



There is currently over 887,000 miles on the injector pump I spoke of previously.


This guyused fuel additives if I'm not mistaken. Boy you really got hosed gunpilot
Just a few extra bucks yours would still be running
On edit, I don't see the additive part in this article But I could swear I read it somewhere he used additives after the ULSD came out. I'll look for it but I have been wrong before. I just like mentioning you guys with tons of miles on their Cummins engines. Impressive real life facts with or without additives.


06 Ram 3500 CC LB Laramie 4x4 Dually 5.9 Cummins Smarty Jr 48RE Jacobs brake
GVWR 12,200 RAWR 9350
06 Grand Junction 34' High profile 15500 GVWR 3200 pin Mor/ryde 5500 Onan genny Dual A/C Wet bolts
27' Hallett 502, 500HP


Gunpilot77

Killeen, Tx

Senior Member

Joined: 10/06/2000

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 03/03/12 09:18pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rick83864 wrote:

Gunpilot77 wrote:



There is currently over 887,000 miles on the injector pump I spoke of previously.


This guyused fuel additives if I'm not mistaken. Boy you really got hosed gunpilot
Just a few extra bucks yours would still be running


I don't know if he used additives, but I doubt it. O/Os, whether in a pickup or a class 8, find out early what is cost effective and what isn't.

My injector pump hasn't missed a beat, it was the original engine that wore out at 800k. I installed the pump on the replacement engine. After turning up the fuel I expected to shorten the life of the engine, so it was no surprise that I didn't make the million mile mark. In a week or two that engine will be rebuilt and reinstalled. It'll make a million, but on a second set of rings and bearings


Fifth wheel pulled with a pick-up

dfb

gardnerville

Senior Member

Joined: 09/29/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 03/04/12 05:47am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gunpilot77 wrote:

The Mad Norsky wrote:



Sulfur is one of the contents that actually assisted in lubrication. When they moved to ultra low sulfur diesel fuel, well that lubricity was removed from the fuel.

As a result, diesel fuel now is sometimes very dry and does not lube the pump and other parts as it should. It is that very dry fuel which is one of the suspected culprits in the high pressure fuel pump failures now being experienced by VW, Ford and GM which are running a CP 4 series Bosch pump.

The 2 stroke oil works in older diesels, but cannot be used in any of the 2007 or newer motors (someone please correct if I have the year wrong here, I know there is a date point at which due to mechanical issues, the 2 stroke oil should not be used.)

The Diesel Place.com site did a study of the various diesel fuel additives meant to add lubricity to diesel fuel. Result are found here.

The study was done a few years back now, but is still relevant. The 2 stroke oil was #7 in effectiveness in their list of additives tested.


A rehash of internet myths. Sulphur is not a lubricant, it is corrosive and the burning of it puts poison in the air. While it is true that the process of removing sulphur removes natural lubricants, the lubricants are added back to the fuel after the sulphur has been removed. Awhile ago I had a Cummins p-pump, (a mechanical injector pump) repaired because it was leaking engine oil from a seal. It definitely qualifies as an "older diesel". The pump had 750k miles on it, most of that time on ULSD. NOT ONE FUEL LUBED PART WAS OUT OF SPEC!

That study is so bogus I can't believe anyone is dumb enough to buy it. First, the contention is that ULSD lacks lubrication. The author states it in the beginning, but offers no reference to that being true. He then uses fuel that is not available to the general public to test different additives. So, if he has this highly technical machine that tests lubricity, why didn't he test the fuel from several diesel pumps in the surrounding area to prove his theory that ULSD lacks lubricity? Why did he use fuel that can not be bought by diesel engine users? Why did he not test the lubricity of pump fuel with various additives?

I just bought some 2 cycle oil for my boat. It was over $20 and not a name brand. Name brand oil is in the $26 to $30 range. Why in the world would you dump a quart of oil into the tank that does not have near the BTUs of diesel and costs more than a gallon of fuel? There is no logical way it could improve mileage by 2 mpg,or by any amount. Remember it has fewer BTUs than diesel. Lube the cylinder walls? Get serious, do you know anything about an internal combustion engine? Add lubrication to the IP? The fuel/oil is a 120:1 mixture. My outbourd requires 50:1 to lube the rod bearings, some engines require a higher percentage. A 120:1 mixture is laughable as a lubrication additive.

Then there is the fact that Canada and California, with no fan fare, switched to ULSD before the transition started in the U.S. If ULSD was causing problems, there would have been plenty of evidence before the internet myths (which I believe were started by the additive companies) sprang up.

Dump whatever you like into your fuel, it is your money.
Poison in the AIR??? Everytime you exhale or fart YOU are poisoning the air. But Who cares... It is just a drop of water in an endless sea.. Sulfer never hurt anyone... look at all the sulfer put into the air since the earth began... we have got to get back to some sort of normalcy.. This Green Garbage is Hogwash and getting old REAL Quick.. Now, I think I will go dump 3 gallons of used oil in a hole in my back yard...

Gale Hawkins

Murray, KY

Senior Member

Joined: 07/22/2007

View Profile


Online
Posted: 03/04/12 07:11am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think anyone who has ever worked with sulfur KNOWS it is NOT a LUBE.

The real issue was noted earlier.

In the PROCESS for removing the natural occuring sulfur in diesel fuel some of the other chemicals that act at injector pump lube IS removed in the process of removing the SULFUR and leading some to use the term "dry" when talking about the "new" low sulfur diesel fuel.

Again sulfur is not a lube but a side effect of removing sulfur from diesel fuel is that real 'lube' properties get removed along with the sulfur.

Using something like WM TCW3 in older diesel engines is NOT to add SULFUR to the fuel but to try and replace some of the natural lube in diesel that got removed in the process of removing more sulfur from diesel fuel.

If adding additives like many add including WM TCW3 oil does not reduce the hammering in your injector system then I would suggest not to add it because it costs more than just diesel at the pump.

ib516

Up here!

Senior Member

Joined: 04/18/2003

View Profile



Posted: 03/04/12 08:15am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'd be worried about what the 2 stroke oil would do to the catalytic converter over time.


2010 Cougar 322QBS 5er
Prev:
01 Dodge 2500 360 gas, 4.10
02 Dodge 2500 5.9L Cummins, 3.55
07 Dodge 3500 SRW Mega 5.9L Cummins, 3.73
Current:
2014 RAM 2500, 6.4L Hemi, 4.10, auto

10000# GVWR, 5500# FGAWR, 6500# RGAWR, 3040# payload, 15470# tow rating, 22500# GCWR


NorthernLimits

Michigan

Senior Member

Joined: 11/17/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 03/04/12 09:03am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ib516 wrote:

I'd be worried about what the 2 stroke oil would do to the catalytic converter over time.


Many don't have a cat but I wouldn't think it would do much if anything at the levels we are talking about. Certainly wouldn't be any harder than bio-diesel.





MPond

Thousand Oaks, CA

Senior Member

Joined: 05/06/2011

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 03/04/12 10:26am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gale Hawkins wrote:

...In the PROCESS for removing the natural occuring sulfur in diesel fuel some of the other chemicals that act at injector pump lube IS removed in the process of removing the SULFUR and leading some to use the term "dry" when talking about the "new" low sulfur diesel fuel.

Again sulfur is not a lube but a side effect of removing sulfur from diesel fuel is that real 'lube' properties get removed along with the sulfur.


I had suspected this was the case, and the source of a lot of the disagreement in this thread, but this is one area where I must admit my knowledge is limited.

Would my '05 Duramax fit into the category of an "older diesel" in this context since it wasn't designed for ULSD? And my '03 Cummins ISL 400 too? I haven't had any problems with either using the new ULSD.


2003 Country Coach Intrigue, Cummins ISL 400
Toad: 2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (LJ) toad, with just a few mods...

Other rig: 2005 Chevy Silverado 3500 Duramax Dually / Next Level 38CK Fifth-wheel Toy Hauler w/ quads, sand rail, etc...

Gale Hawkins

Murray, KY

Senior Member

Joined: 07/22/2007

View Profile


Online
Posted: 03/04/12 11:42am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Mpond the fact is many problems are just in our minds and the side effect of too much web talk.

TCW3, etc is maainly fuel for a diesel engine. In some engines it does make them hammer a bit less but not in all.

I think we spend too much time overthinking things most of the time.

It is my 'guess' that a 500:1 ratio of TCW3 rated oil in the gas tank of vehicles that have in-tank fuel pumps that tend to fail is as valid of a use for it as in diesel engines.

45Ricochet

North Idaho

Senior Member

Joined: 09/04/2009

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 03/04/12 11:48am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

NorthernLimits wrote:

Certainly wouldn't be any harder than bio-diesel.


Speaking of which where is Navydude anyway?

This Topic Is Closed  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 10  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > 2 stroke oil in diesel
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:

© 2014 RV.Net | Terms & Conditions | PRIVACY POLICY | YOUR PRIVACY RIGHTS