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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Is V-10 Technology Dead?

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bkirkpatrick

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Posted: 02/29/12 10:54pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

With the rising cost of gas over the years and diesel costing that much more than gas, is any more technology being put into creating a stronger V-10 engine to really compete with a diesel. I know that diesels are a completely different monster and I am not talking about makings a 600ci V-10 but is the V-10 ever going go go anywhere but where it currently is or is it pretty much maxed out technology wise.


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Posted: 02/29/12 11:03pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think that Ford will keep making the V10 until they come out with a smaller V8 Ecoboost that will have about the same horsepower, perhaps a stronger larger diameter crankshaft, and better transmission to handle 400 HP engine with 375 foot pounds of torque without overheating.

So yes the V-10 I don't see many changes to it. Perhaps they will sell it in CNG or LPG form, (they do for the F-650 and F-750 chassis) because that fuel seems to be much less expensive these days. Yet that same LP and CNG can be used on a un-converted Ecoboost too.

Cities seem to like the F-650 in a sweeper or small dump truck with a snow plow using $2 per gallon natural gas, or $3 LP gas being a good alternative to the more expensive to purchase (by $7000 per truck) diesel engine that will need Def, and other additives, perhaps more expensive maintenance of the DEF system, and other smog controls.

But I don't see a Ecoboost version of the V10, there is no reason to build a 550 HP gas or LP or CNG powered engine, unless perhaps for pumping water or something like that.

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Posted: 02/29/12 11:12pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I would agree with Fred, it's only on the F250/350 chassis where Ford has stopped with the V10. They are still being installed in the medium trucks and the E350/450 and bare chassis.


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Posted: 03/01/12 05:29am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I suspect that indeed we will soon see a small displacement (5.0) Ecoboost V-8 in the near future to replace the 6.2 V-8 and the 6.8 V-10 in Superduty and larger truck applicatiions. Maybe a CNG or LNG Ecoboost?


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Posted: 03/01/12 05:37am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Never say never.....a 500hp Ecoboost V10 would be awesome! I love mine thats currently in my F350. Tough as nails.

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Posted: 03/01/12 05:41am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think fords future will be smaller more powerful ecoboost style engines. Just a guess

SoCalDesertRider

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Posted: 03/01/12 05:51am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I wouldn't say the V10 is dead yet, but I don't expect any other auto or light truck manufacturers to come out with more V10's and I would expect that Ford's current V10 will eventually die off.

I never saw the need for the extra cylinders to begin with. A large displacement V8 or inline-6 is just as good as a large displacement V10 or V12.


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Posted: 03/01/12 05:55am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have two f250s with a V10. A 2002 with a 3.73 differntial and a 2008 FX4 with a 4.10 differential. Love them both. I just got new ball joints on my 2002 F250 4X4 with 105,000 miles. I also added a Rancho steering stabilizer on my 2002 F250. Great vehicles.

I suspect in the future we will see some big changes in automatic transmissions. 6 gear is nice but what about a 10 or 12 gear. They use 12 and 16 gear auto and semi auto transmissions in tractors and they can use 50 hp engines with tremendous power. Why don't they put them in on the road vehicles? In pickups we could go down to a 25 hp engine with a 12 or 16 gear transmission.

If I can pull a stack wagon loaded with over 3 ton of hay, plus the weight of the stack wagon I'm at approx 5 ton with a 55 HP tractor with a 12 gear trany and have more power than I need why not put these tranies in pickup? Just thinking.


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Posted: 03/01/12 06:22am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

WyoTraveler wrote:


I suspect in the future we will see some big changes in automatic transmissions. 6 gear is nice but what about a 10 or 12 gear. They use 12 and 16 gear auto and semi auto transmissions in tractors and they can use 50 hp engines with tremendous power. Why don't they put them in on the road vehicles? In pickups we could go down to a 25 hp engine with a 12 or 16 gear transmission.

If I can pull a stack wagon loaded with over 3 ton of hay, plus the weight of the stack wagon I'm at approx 5 ton with a 55 HP tractor with a 12 gear trany and have more power than I need why not put these tranies in pickup? Just thinking.


Cost and market are the barriers.

To date, customers of trucks seem to be willing to pay for more and more horsepower and torque, whether they need it or not.

Perfectly good engines for doing the job, like high torque but low horsepower ones, have been gradually converted to high rpm racing engine like.

You are asking for a drastic step back from the evolutionary path. If an engine only put out 25/50hp (that is actually all the power needed to move a very large pickup at speed). It still needs gobs of torque to get it up to cruising speed.

Then there is the level of acceleration that it can do --- even with 12 speeds (or a CVT), it can only accelerate so fast. Will that be acceptable to have cars compete with fully loaded tractor trailers for slowness?

Then the issue of duty cycle. A 25/50hp engine will be working at nearly 100% duty cycle (maximum output all the time) which means it has to be built rugged --- nearly 2X the weight of your regular disposable engine that is built for high horsepower / torque / light weight.

What you are asking for, in a round about way, exist already in Europe, in relatively small engine, low power output small engines. They will put a 1 liter range engine in a good sized truck.

The question is, will it sell here?

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Posted: 03/01/12 06:28am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The V10 is far from dead.

It has been moved into displacing the diesel in a lot of medium duty applications as the price of diesels (both initial and operating) skyrocket, negating their former advantages except in certain well defined applications like heavy duty trucking, and medium duty with a lot of miles.

At present costs, there is no advantage to owning a 2010 or later diesel outside of these segments for most users with the exception of the niches like the VW diesels --- and even there the economics are being undermined by combination direct gasoline injection and turbo charging.

Think about your average furniture shop that owns a large medium duty F-550 truck with a box on it. Doesn't do much load or mileage, or many hours a week. Why do they need a diesel if the V 10 does the job?

What about a food distribution firm with the same needs, just a bit more mileage?

The whole issue with diesel emissions is far from settled --- with diesel costs much higher (you think the present gen is high, wait until you hear about Euro 6) both in initial purchase and operating. We are just finding out how expensive the 2010 ones are to maintain over the long haul... and that is before factoring in the many places with mandatory annual inspections for medium / heavy duty commercial vehicles.

If I were to guess, there will be a steady expansion of turbo charging / direct gasoline injection down and up the line until every engine is converted over. The only ones left out will be industrial, marine, and little segments like defense / military (which in USA, is not gasoline).

Ecoboost adds around $700 to the small / mid sized engines, and can probably be applied to the V 10 for $1,500, with a retail premium of $6,000 vs. the diesel premium that is rapidly spiraling to $15,000 for a medium / heavy duty EPA 2010 vehicle. With gasoline cheaper, and mileage from diesels and gasoline narrowing... and maintenance on ecoboost (based on initial data) looking good...

I expect to see a V10 ecoboost around 2016 2017 timeframe. That means a decision to do it around 2014.

* This post was edited 03/01/12 06:35am by NewsW *

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