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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Is V-10 Technology Dead?

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mkirsch

Rochester, NY

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Posted: 03/01/12 02:50pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Why does it have to be a V10? It could be a V8, V6, or straight 6, and do every bit as well.

The only reason for the Ford V10 engine is parts commonality with their 5.4L V8. There is no technical reason to have a V10.


2002 Chevy 3500 DRW/8.1/Allison & 2000 Palomino B1500 popup TC

-Yes, I haul a popup with a dually. No, I don't think I need a dually to haul a popup.

NewsW

US

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Joined: 02/06/2012

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Posted: 03/01/12 03:02pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mkirsch wrote:

Why does it have to be a V10? It could be a V8, V6, or straight 6, and do every bit as well.

The only reason for the Ford V10 engine is parts commonality with their 5.4L V8. There is no technical reason to have a V10.



There is a reason to go for smaller cylinders.

Smaller reciprocating mass makes for higher revs without stress / wear from heavy weight moving around.

A 6 cyl at 7 liters would be beyond the optimal.

Look at the flame front propagation from the single spark plug.

The flame only moves so fast, a larger cylinder means it has to travel farther to combust and release energy before the piston moves too far down to extract it.

That may not matter at 3,000rpm, but as rpms go up, it is less and less efficient.

Plus the reciprocating mass issue.

Having said that.. yes, commonality with the modular engines simplify manufacturing, design, and allow the optimizations for each cylinder to be shared.


That is why we don't do single or twin cylinder 8 liter engines.

Turtle n Peeps

California

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Posted: 03/01/12 03:10pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

NewsW wrote:

mkirsch wrote:

Why does it have to be a V10? It could be a V8, V6, or straight 6, and do every bit as well.

The only reason for the Ford V10 engine is parts commonality with their 5.4L V8. There is no technical reason to have a V10.



There is a reason to go for smaller cylinders.

Smaller reciprocating mass makes for higher revs without stress / wear from heavy weight moving around.

A 6 cyl at 7 liters would be beyond the optimal.

Look at the flame front propagation from the single spark plug.

The flame only moves so fast, a larger cylinder means it has to travel farther to combust and release energy before the piston moves too far down to extract it.

That may not matter at 3,000rpm, but as rpms go up, it is less and less efficient.

Plus the reciprocating mass issue.

Having said that.. yes, commonality with the modular engines simplify manufacturing, design, and allow the optimizations for each cylinder to be shared.


That is why we don't do single or twin cylinder 8 liter engines.


News flash: You don't have to rev a supercharged engine to get power out of it. Want power earlier? Just pump more air to it sooner.


~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~


"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"


garry owen

riverton wy

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Posted: 03/01/12 05:18pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

WyoTraveler wrote:

I have heard that the price tag on the new urea system on diesels is going to increase the price tag of diesels up to $10,000. We may not see that amount in this recession but as we pull out of the recession that is quite a bit of an increase for EPA air control. Especially when new pickups already are upwards of $50,000. It just seems like they could do a lot more. I do realize you not only have to build vehicles you also have to find a large enough market to make money. I really hate to see the V10 go away in the F250 and F350. We live in a very cold climate and I went to the V10 Vs the diesel because diesels not run everyday in very cold weather sometimes have problems starting. Since we only drove our 2000 7.3L diesel to town every couple of weeks it was a problem that I don't have with the V10. I traded that diesel after the fuel turned to jelly at 60 below zero on the way to town. Breaking down in 60 below zero weather is an experience I never want to repeat.

However, all that said, buying a pickup capable of towing a good sized TT, 5Ver etc really requires a diesel engine now that the V10 is going away in F250 and F350. The answer I see on the truck forums is the H & S computer system for diesels. Completely re-programing the diesel engine, including the urea system.


feed all winter with a 1466 international. pretty sure it gets as cold here in riverton as it doe's there in powell.

i think you also misinformed about the price of urea systems.

as far as a v10..................... i can remember when a straight 8 flat heads were around.


2010 HD Silverado club cab Dura Max FS3000 Weekend Warrior
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bid_time

Michigan

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Posted: 03/02/12 05:55am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Turtles and Peeps - Why don't you try asking some Owner/Operators if they would rather go up a grade at 60 mph or would they rather average 18 mpg.





ib516

Up here!

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Posted: 03/02/12 08:38am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

There's a lot left to do to gasoline engines to make them more fuel efficient and powerful. Turbo charging (EcoBoost like), direct injection, and the new technology Mazda is using to get hybrid like mpg out of a non-hybrid vehicle (SKYACTIV) are all technologies that will soon be in more and more tow vehicles. Especially as diesel becomes a less popular option due to being choked by emissions, complicated technology, and potentially huge repair bills.

You can buy a whole new gas engine and get it installed for what the fuel or exhaust system costs to replace on a new diesel.


2010 Cougar 322QBS 5er
Prev:
01 Dodge 2500 360 gas, 4.10
02 Dodge 2500 5.9L Cummins, 3.55
07 Dodge 3500 SRW Mega 5.9L Cummins, 3.73
Current:
2014 RAM 2500, 6.4L Hemi, 4.10, auto

10000# GVWR, 5500# FGAWR, 6500# RGAWR, 3040# payload, 15470# tow rating, 22500# GCWR


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Pierre

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Posted: 03/02/12 08:48am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

NewsW wrote:

mkirsch wrote:

Why does it have to be a V10? It could be a V8, V6, or straight 6, and do every bit as well.

The only reason for the Ford V10 engine is parts commonality with their 5.4L V8. There is no technical reason to have a V10.



There is a reason to go for smaller cylinders.

Smaller reciprocating mass makes for higher revs without stress / wear from heavy weight moving around.

A 6 cyl at 7 liters would be beyond the optimal.

Look at the flame front propagation from the single spark plug.

The flame only moves so fast, a larger cylinder means it has to travel farther to combust and release energy before the piston moves too far down to extract it.

That may not matter at 3,000rpm, but as rpms go up, it is less and less efficient.

Plus the reciprocating mass issue.

Having said that.. yes, commonality with the modular engines simplify manufacturing, design, and allow the optimizations for each cylinder to be shared.


That is why we don't do single or twin cylinder 8 liter engines.


News flash: You don't have to rev a supercharged engine to get power out of it. Want power earlier? Just pump more air to it sooner.


Not to mention Volumetric efficiency goes through the roof when you introduce forced induction.


Any day enjoying the great outdoors beats any day enjoying your 8x8 office cube!

mkirsch

Rochester, NY

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Posted: 03/02/12 11:55am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Who says the engine has to rev at high RPMs?

That's the #1 excuse diesel owners use to put down gas engines: "The gas engine would be screaming and struggling to pull the load."

Turtle n Peeps

California

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Posted: 03/02/12 12:51pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

bid_time wrote:

Turtles and Peeps - Why don't you try asking some Owner/Operators if they would rather go up a grade at 60 mph or would they rather average 18 mpg.

I think you and I know the answer to that one.

People don't want to admit it but power sells when towing or racing.

One thing that still holds true from Henry the 1st to now. You want lots of HP you need to pay for lots of fuel. You want lots of economy, your not going to have much power.

People want both. That's not going to happen.

rjstractor

Auburn, WA

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Posted: 03/02/12 02:14pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Turtle n Peeps wrote:


I think you and I know the answer to that one.

People don't want to admit it but power sells when towing or racing.


Agree 100%. If truck users wanted mileage instead of power, the Cummins diesel used in pickups would still have 160 hp, but get 25-30 mpg empty. It would still tow 10000 pounds or so- about 30 mph up a mountain pass, which is not acceptable to today's truck user. Today guys want a 350+ hp engine that will tow that load up the pass at 60, at the expense of fuel mileage.

Also agree with TnP on the hp issue. It takes torque to go up a hill, but horsepower is what determines how fast you go up the hill.


1998 Gulfstream Ultra B/H Ford E450 V10
2005 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 w/ Maxidump insert
2006 Ford Escape Hybrid
1998 Saturn SL2 toad
2012 VW Jetta S

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