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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Ford's answers to the NHTSA 6.7 Investigation

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The Mad Norsky

Yankton, South Dakota

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Posted: 03/04/12 06:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A question here.

I bought the extended warranty for my Ford 6.7L diesel.

So if Ford won't warranty the warranty will the worthless warranty welcome willful woebegone warranty websites who watch for willing owners with warranties which were worthless?????


I remain so confused.


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Posted: 03/04/12 07:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

Ford Doctor is a Ford diesel tech on TDS and feel he's calling a spade a spade. His experience like other Ford diesel techs have seen very few failures and yes some have been covererd by warranty when there is no evidence of contaminated diesel.

Gloom and Doom for the 6.7... I think not!




What is the definition of "evidence"?


As I read the Ford TSB posted on that site, it does not allow for the possibility of failure that is unexplained.

Flashman

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Posted: 03/04/12 07:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

Ford Doctor is a Ford diesel tech on TDS and feel he's calling a spade a spade. His experience like other Ford diesel techs have seen very few failures and yes some have been covererd by warranty when there is no evidence of contaminated diesel.

Gloom and Doom for the 6.7... I think not!


And as the miles on the 6.7 start to increase?? It seems to be a ticking bomb.

45Ricochet

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Posted: 03/04/12 07:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

Ford Doctor is a Ford diesel tech on TDS and feel he's calling a spade a spade. His experience like other Ford diesel techs have seen very few failures and yes some have been covererd by warranty when there is no evidence of contaminated diesel.

Gloom and Doom for the 6.7... I think not!


TDS is exactly what? I know of a few Ford forums and TDS doesn't ring a bell. Inquiring minds would like to know you source of information


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Turtle n Peeps

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Posted: 03/04/12 07:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rick83864 wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Ford Doctor is a Ford diesel tech on TDS and feel he's calling a spade a spade. His experience like other Ford diesel techs have seen very few failures and yes some have been covererd by warranty when there is no evidence of contaminated diesel.

Gloom and Doom for the 6.7... I think not!


TDS is exactly what? I know of a few Ford forums and TDS doesn't ring a bell. Inquiring minds would like to know you source of information


This is the forum bashathon of the month. At least for some


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Posted: 03/04/12 07:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I am not convinced it is a "ticking time bomb" yet.

We are still not sure it is a widespread failure that will expand to many units or a large % of units in field, or a small number of units.

The evidence of the same pump failing across a range of applications from different makers, all centered on the same manufacturer's pump is not good.

But the jury is out.

And no definitive cause has been made public --- Bosch may know, VW might, but Ford and GM, I seriously believe, do not know.

At least I take Ford at their word that they did not know in the NHTSA filing.

8iron

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Posted: 03/04/12 08:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Flashman wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Ford Doctor is a Ford diesel tech on TDS and feel he's calling a spade a spade. His experience like other Ford diesel techs have seen very few failures and yes some have been covererd by warranty when there is no evidence of contaminated diesel.

Gloom and Doom for the 6.7... I think not!


And as the miles on the 6.7 start to increase?? It seems to be a ticking bomb.


I'm curious why "It seems to be a ticking time bomb"? Is it the sheer number of reported issues or the sheer number of posts by the same person/people that had the problem? How much out of pocket are these people with the problem? There may very well be a widespread issue eventually but the percentages don't show that right now do they?


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Posted: 03/04/12 08:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

8iron wrote:

Is it the sheer number of reported issues or the sheer number of posts by the same person/people that had the problem? How much out of pocket are these people with the problem? There may very well be a widespread issue eventually but the percentages don't show that right now do they?




The data supplied to NHTSA by GM, VW, Ford, etc. show it is a problem across brands that cannot be explained just by random chance.

This is a component that should have 250,000 miles or more of life, and should rarely (if at all fail).

Now it seems it is intolerant of many common abuses PLUS at least one unexplained case.

Certainly not the work of one rickatic.

Something is going on.

But we are not sure what yet.

coolbreeze01

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Posted: 03/04/12 08:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The Mad Norsky wrote:

A question here.

I bought the extended warranty for my Ford 6.7L diesel.

So if Ford won't warranty the warranty will the worthless warranty welcome willful woebegone warranty websites who watch for willing owners with warranties which were worthless?????


I remain so confused.


Speaking of warranties, any idea how much value the standard warranty factors into the retail price of a vehicle? There are new car buyers that knowingly void their warranties and would gladly pay less money for a non-warranted vehicle. Just curious.


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ricatic

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Posted: 03/04/12 08:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

Ford Doctor is a Ford diesel tech on TDS and feel he's calling a spade a spade. His experience like other Ford diesel techs have seen very few failures and yes some have been covererd by warranty when there is no evidence of contaminated diesel.

Gloom and Doom for the 6.7... I think not!


Hi Troy

Keep in mind there is not too much of that KoolAid at this site.

I read Ford Doctors post.In my post that followed, I agreed with him that the vandalized Ford 6.7 was not a warranty claim. No one would think that it would be. He never said whether there was any discussion with the owner of that truck about the non-warranty status.

The gloom and doom you speak of is not as much related to the failures of the HPFP but the failure of Ford Motor Company to adjudicate each case on it's own merits. The dealership can not just fix a failed HPFP under warranty. All HPFP failures that make it past the tech must be looked at by a Ford FSE. The few Ford HPFP's that were replaced under warranty were all done prior to the September edict from Ford... An edict that was issued after I started the discussion here and at other sites.

Ford has a policy of no warranty for HPFP failures. It is up to the owner to prove the HPFP repair should be warrantied. The dealerships are so afraid of a warranty kickback from Ford that they are not eager to help the customer. This policy position was told to me by a highly respected Ford tech that you and I both know personally. It is also what Shepherd's, the second dealer that actually fixed my truck told me. Their service manager had a discussion with the regional marketing manager regarding my truck. This guy told him to fix my truck under warranty. We discussed this possibility. The service manager told me he was scared to do the repair for fear of warranty kickback.

GM has a policy that puts the customer first. There have been zero reports of GM failing to warranty any failed CP4 HPFP. This despite the fact that there failure rate on the pump is statistically the same as Ford's. Maybe they actually understand the lubricity issue

If Bosch is warranting the GM pumps...why would they not do the same for Ford. The answer is simple...they would. The problem is Ford is scared stiff of yet another diesel black eye like the last two Navistar engines. Blaming owners for HPFP failures may be keeping Ford's warranty numbers down but it is causing a growing public relations nightmare.

Now that the NHTSA answers are out there, the truth is surfacing. The Bosch CP4 series pumps have shown their preference for the exact quality fuel that Bosch demands for them. The 460 scar fuel in Canada has produced a significantly lower failure rate than the poor 520 scar fuel that is available in the US. This is irrefutable...unless both GM and Ford lied in their answers to the NHTSA...or someone drank too much KoolAid...

Regards


Ricatic
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