"Mr BS FIRE UP"
Well now that's an intelligent response. It never ceases to amaze me how some folks get their dander up in certain circumstances, especially on this forum.
Anyway, ANY force applied to the brake pedal of a toad, no matter what kind of, or brand of, auxiliary braking system you have, will apply the brake lights to the toad PERIOD, key on or off. Now, AS STATED, if you pull the correct fuse to eliminate that issue, they you're good to go. That is, if you feel like pulling fuses and re-installing them each and every time you hook up and unhook for traveling. I simply chose/choose not to do that.
The simpler I make my travels, with or without a toad, the nicer is is on me and her. So, to get into a fuse box, and in some cases, it's a real pain in the a.., and pull that fuse, then get into it again, when you need to disconnect the toad, to me, was a pain. If any or all or you don't mind doing that task, it's certainly up to you. No biggie to me.
And of course if you have separate turn signals (amber) and brake lights on your toad, you won't have the issue(s) I've explained above. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
Now, for those that have or, are planning on adding a bulb in the housing, next to the original bulbs, there's possible issues with that style of remedy too. You see, what you've done or are about to do, is place an alternate bulb, displaying a signal, next to the stock bulb, displaying another signal. Do you see what I'm picturing/saying here?
If you have an auxiliary braking system, and you've not done any remedy to alleviate the dual brake light signal problem, (one from the coach and one from the toad brake arm, and you're approaching a stop and turn at the same time, you now have a brake light and turn light, one flashing and one solid, in the same housing and many times, depending how close in proximity to each other the bulbs are, and certain conditions, i.e. sun etc., it's impossible to distinguish the two different signals. The brake light over powers the signal light in intensity.
Now, if 1, that's not important to you, that's fine. 2, if you've remedied the toad brake arm signal to the toad brake lights by pulling a fuse, setting up a switch etc. then that's fine too. It's the drivers behind me, especially in town traffic that I'm thinking of.
Ladies and gents, you can throw out the flames all day long if you like. How people remedy situations in the RV world is certainly up to each individual setup. After 35 years of RVing, towing several types of toads, with every type of light system there is to imagine, two filament system coaches to three filament system toads, three filament coaches to two filament system toads, foreign toads, domestic toads, seven different Jeep wranglers, AND, each and every time, utilizing the stock tail lights of the toad, I've figured out what's needed to be done in order for the most correct scenario to be displayed behind MY SETUP.
What you do for yours is as stated, certainly up to you. You do what makes you happy. It's that simple.
At present, we have a two filament system coach with a three filament system, 2011 Honda CRV. All the tail lights in the CRV act EXACTLY the same way when towing as they do when we're driving it. It was an easy system to set up. The manual for the CRV states you must pull fuse #31 or #34, I can't remember which one, for prep for towing. The reason is because the key must be in the position to unlock the steering and, being in that position, it also leaves components on in the CRV. That particular fuse is the hardest one to get to in the fuse box and one has to be a contortionist to get to it. I'm NOT going to go through that each and every time we link up or down for towing or disconnecting.
So, I established a power wire from the coach to the CRV which, is incorporated in the pig tail between the two. Now, the battery in the CRV has 13.5V going to it while traveling. We've done it for well over 2000 miles and have disconnected and connected several times and the CRV starts flawlessly each and every time.
tropical 36,
You ask if having the two signals to the same bulb, turn and stop, "will the turn signal quit blinking"? It can. I've followed folks (friends) who've had their system set up that way and when they had the turn signal on, then stepped on the brakes, the turn signal went away until the took their foot off the brake. It's the same type of situation created when bad grounds are in the tail light area of some vehicles. I've been on the road and following coach/toads with the same system and witnessed the same reaction.
rk911,
Do you have an auxiliary braking system in your jeep? If you don't, then yes your system works as you described because you have no action on the brake arm in your jeep as you apply brakes in the coach. But, if you do have an aux. braking system in your jeep, and it's applying the brakes in the jeep while you apply the brakes in the coach, which it's supposed to do, then you ARE displaying dual brake lights in your jeep.
Folks, this is simple. If you're not sure of what I'm trying to convey here, then do a simple test. Go out and push on the brakes of your toad, I don't care what brand, make or model of toad it is, and either watch for a reflection on whatever's behind it or, have a friend observe that the brake lights come on and you've got your keys in your hand.
To the best of my knowledge, it was mandated in the early 60s that the brake lights come on without the need of the ignition being on by several government agencies. And I'm presupposing that the reason was because if you lost engine power due to electrical circumstances, and you applied the brakes, at least you wouldn't be smacked from the rear, (because you were still able to display brake lights) while trying to brake and move to a safer place to stop.
mohare7,
You are welcome for the suggestion. It's a simple system to set up. Even if you just wanted a switch to turn off the brake light signal from the brake switch in the toad, it's really easy to set up. It only gets a tad more time consuming to add a wire to the other side of the toggle to run to the dash on the coach, to inform you that the toads brakes are in fact, being applied.
Scott
Scott and Karla SDFD RETIRED
2004 Itasca Horizon, 36GD Slate Blue 330 CAT
2011 White Honda CRV EX-L,4WD w/NAV Toad 2008 Caliente Red LVL II GL 1800 Goldwing KI60ND
Or, you can set your Aux Braking system properly, so that it only engages when you need it in an emergency or very hard stop and this won't be a real issue at all!
Frankly, for regular braking, I don't need my Jeep trying to help stop my 45,000 pound rig. I'm only concerned with having my BrakeBuddy back there for emergency stops and in the unlikely event of a break-away.
Paul & Sandra
New Bedford, MA
2003 Monaco Executive M43 DS2
Paul,
I certainly see your reasoning. I have friends who've set their Brake Buddie's up the same way but, not all folks are driving a heavy rig like that. Some are driving a much lighter coach and prefere the assistance of the brakes on the toad for any given braking situation. But, even setting it up as you like it, that does not alleviate the problem of the lighting situation. If you are cruising along and are talking to the DW etc, and just remember to take a certain turn or off ramp etc, and you hard brake to do it and, put your turn signal on at the same time to aleart the folks behind you, then you have the situation I've been talking about, even with your system adjusted the way you like it.
Scott
FIRE UP wrote: Paul,
I certainly see your reasoning. I have friends who've set their Brake Buddie's up the same way but, not all folks are driving a heavy rig like that. Some are driving a much lighter coach and prefere the assistance of the brakes on the toad for any given braking situation. But, even setting it up as you like it, that does not alleviate the problem of the lighting situation. If you are cruising along and are talking to the DW etc, and just remember to take a certain turn or off ramp etc, and you hard brake to do it and, put your turn signal on at the same time to aleart the folks behind you, then you have the situation I've been talking about, even with your system adjusted the way you like it.
Scott
FIRE UP wrote: ...What many are not aware of, and you are correct in, is the fact that the toads brake lights come on if, one is using an auxiliary braking system. That's a federal law. ...
FIRE UP wrote: ...Folks, this is simple. If you're not sure of what I'm trying to convey here, then do a simple test. Go out and push on the brakes of your toad, I don't care what brand, make or model of toad it is, and either watch for a reflection on whatever's behind it or, have a friend observe that the brake lights come on and you've got your keys in your hand.
To the best of my knowledge, it was mandated in the early 60s that the brake lights come on without the need of the ignition being on by several government agencies. And I'm presupposing that the reason was because if you lost engine power due to electrical circumstances, and you applied the brakes, at least you wouldn't be smacked from the rear, (because you were still able to display brake lights) while trying to brake and move to a safer place to stop. ...
Hi Scott,
I like the solutions you've suggested, and I've used similar methods for making the lights in my toads work over the years. So I'm not trying to start an argument, as I think you're providing a good solution.
But I'm not convinced that you're right that all cars behave this way - that the brake lights work when the ignition is off. I've had a number of cars over the years of different makes that didn't work this way - most of them German. I just walked out to the garage and tried this on both of my BMWs, and the brake lights don't come on without the ignition in either one. And I've had similar experiences in my Porsche and VWs as well.
It's unlikely that BMW, Porsche, and VW are all selling cars in the U.S. that don't meet the federal requirements.
2003 Country Coach Intrigue, Cummins ISL 400
Toad: 2006 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (LJ) toad, with just a few mods...
Other rig: 2005 Chevy Silverado 3500 Duramax Dually / Next Level 38CK Fifth-wheel Toy Hauler w/ quads, sand rail, etc...
I have the same basic setup on my 2011 Wrangler but I also put a battery disconnect on the Wrangler. So when I plug in the Cool Tech harness to the RV with the Cool Tech pigtail, the RV controls the brake lites, running lites and turn signals on the Wrangler. Even though the ReadyBrute cable pulls on the Wrangler brake pedal, the Wrangler brakes lites won't activate on their own since the Wrangler power is disconnected at the battery. (CoolTech sells the quick disconnect.) I didn't want power on the Wrangler brakes lites coming from both the Wrangler and the RV when the brakes are applied as this could cause damage on the Wrangler's CAN Bus. Also I don't tow with the Wrangler ignition key in place since it has no steering wheel lock. My setup is pretty simple, doesn't take a lot of time to hook up or unhook and towing is a snap. Basically with this setup the Wrangler is just an expensive trailer to the RV. The only downside is having to reset the clock on the Wrangler when I reconnect the battery.
-bob
mohare7 wrote: I have a cooltech wire harness on my 2012 Wrangler, which controls the brake and signal lights on the Jeep from the tow connector on my coach. I also have a Readybrake, which as I'm sure you all know, is basically a cable which pulls on the brake pedal as the coach slows down. My question: since the brake lights are being enabled from the coach, I don't need the brake pedal in the Jeep to turn them on. I read somewhere to pull the M1 fuse in the Jeep, which is the stop light switch fuse. But my owners manual says the M1 is only for the center high mount brake light switch. It says the M37 fuse is for the stop light switch, and several other things. Which fuse is it? Do I really need to pull either one?
bob_nestor wrote: I have the same basic setup on my 2011 Wrangler but I also put a battery disconnect on the Wrangler. So when I plug in the Cool Tech harness to the RV with the Cool Tech pigtail, the RV controls the brake lites, running lites and turn signals on the Wrangler. Even though the ReadyBrute cable pulls on the Wrangler brake pedal, the Wrangler brakes lites won't activate on their own since the Wrangler power is disconnected at the battery. (CoolTech sells the quick disconnect.) I didn't want power on the Wrangler brakes lites coming from both the Wrangler and the RV when the brakes are applied as this could cause damage on the Wrangler's CAN Bus. Also I don't tow with the Wrangler ignition key in place since it has no steering wheel lock. My setup is pretty simple, doesn't take a lot of time to hook up or unhook and towing is a snap. Basically with this setup the Wrangler is just an expensive trailer to the RV. The only downside is having to reset the clock on the Wrangler when I reconnect the battery.
-bob
mohare7 wrote: I have a cooltech wire harness on my 2012 Wrangler, which controls the brake and signal lights on the Jeep from the tow connector on my coach. I also have a Readybrake, which as I'm sure you all know, is basically a cable which pulls on the brake pedal as the coach slows down. My question: since the brake lights are being enabled from the coach, I don't need the brake pedal in the Jeep to turn them on. I read somewhere to pull the M1 fuse in the Jeep, which is the stop light switch fuse. But my owners manual says the M1 is only for the center high mount brake light switch. It says the M37 fuse is for the stop light switch, and several other things. Which fuse is it? Do I really need to pull either one?
Actually the battery disconnect along with the umbilical cord is included with the deluxe kit. Now, if you have blue tooth for your cell phone as well, wouldn't you lose that also and have to set the whole thing up again?
"We are often so caught up in our destination that we forget to appreciate the journey."
1998 36ft. National Tropi-Cal Model 6350 on a 1997 Chevy P32
Chassis_7.4 Vortec Engine_4L80E Tranny_slide_tag axle.
MPond,
Thank you for your comments on my ideas for the brake situation. And, no, you're not starting an argument, you're simply stating facts as you know them, applied to your vehicles. When I state something here or any place on the net, on any forum, and it's pertaining to something that has contentions of legality, I try and know what I'm talking about or, at least have referances of a knowledge base in making said statements.
While in my career as a fireman, we commonly had discussions about various subjects on a day to day basis. These entailed anything from baseball bats to washing machines to knowing laws, rules and regulations pertaining to our job and, different classes of drivers licences etc. Well, way back in the beginning, we had that discussion about having brake lights with no igition. And, since every one of our fire trucks had/have brake lights without ignition, we all agreed that we were in compliance with what we were led to believe, was a federal law stating all vehicles manufactured after a certain date, had to have brake lights activated even in the event of loss of igniton.
Well, I'm on the hunt now to see if I can verify what I've been telling folks here on this site and others for years. At present, the only item I have found yet is item #9, in the regs below. And, while it states what it states, it's not in real detail, in terms of what I'm trying to emphasize. I'll keep looking. But, in the mean time, I went out and just to make sure, I re-tested our brand new 2011 Honda CRV, my sons 2001 Chevy Z-71 and, our 2004 Itasca Horizon D/P M/H. And all of them displayed brake lights and the keys were in the house. So, as for your German autos, I have no idea what applies to what vehicles now in terms of manufacturers, in other countries.
( I copied and pasted a set of regs from the Oregon state MV code all about brake lights and what applied and, the formatting system on this forum would not approve, so I had to elimiate it in order to post my answer. I have no idea what it didn't like, whatever it was, it would not let me post my answer with it in there so, sorry. )
Bob_Nestor,
Your solution of a battery disconnect on your Jeep is certainly one that works. But, as you've stated, it kills memory in certain applications too. But, if it works for you, that's great. And you have covered the "dual signal" problem.
Scott
Actually the battery disconnect along with the umbilical cord is included with the deluxe kit. Now, if you have blue tooth for your cell phone as well, wouldn't you lose that also and have to set the whole thing up again?
I'm not sure since I don't have U-Connect but it may not. The station settings on my radio aren't affected by disconnecting the battery.
My Wrangler is pretty basic - didn't see the value in having things like electric windows on removable doors.
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