I've got to come across as a dumb A$$ here. Our two governments have the policy of improving MPGs and clean air. Right now we don't have the technology to do both. let's face it we take a diesel engine restrict the exhaust to trap particulates and Nox, yet have to burn more fuel to get the power needed to pull heavy loads. I believe we have to be stewards of the earth. Air is a renewable resource, but how long did it take for a Canadian white Mouse/Rat to get cancer from breathing diesel particulates or suffucate from Nox. I don't know about you but I don't believe science any more after AL Gore or the skewed data of global warming by science. Plus I disagree with government findings especially the EPA when government can't manage money.
08 Dodge Mega Cab DRW,6spd auto, Exhaust break, 8'bed conversion (Best mistake I've made)
35' Teton Home Experience 3 slides, its not a trailer its a home
5500 watt generator
and a beautiful Co-piolet
rvert10 wrote: I've got to come across as a dumb A$$ here. Our two governments have the policy of improving MPGs and clean air. Right now we don't have the technology to do both. let's face it we take a diesel engine restrict the exhaust to trap particulates and Nox, yet have to burn more fuel to get the power needed to pull heavy loads. I believe we have to be stewards of the earth. Air is a renewable resource, but how long did it take for a Canadian white Mouse/Rat to get cancer from breathing diesel particulates or suffucate from Nox. I don't know about you but I don't believe science any more after AL Gore or the skewed data of global warming by science. Plus I disagree with government findings especially the EPA when government can't manage money.
Don't believe the rodent studies.
If you go to your local hospital and talk to a radiologist, you should be able to hear about (if not anonymously glance at) X rays of lungs from people who spent much of their lifetimes breathing in high levels of particulates (e.g. if they lived in Mexico, India, China, etc. for most of their lives).
The lung x-rays turn out to look similar to smokers lungs.
Extrapolating from animal studies is not perfect, but there is decent medical science consensus that high particulate emissions (from diesel, industrial processes, etc.) do reduce lung function.
In China right now, there is exactly this kind of fight going on, in reverse, where the government want to tell people that particulate matter pollution don't matter and cause harm (just a foggy haze), and people are complaining of difficulty breathing (normal), exhaustion, etc.
The US Embassy posted the data on air quality (measured on the embassy roof) on the internet, and it kind of upset the Chinese Government, who wanted people to believe their less scientifically rigorous data!
Almost an exact ditto during the teething decade when gasoline got the mandate EPA
rule changes
Now gassers are back in form with even more power than before, along with higher
MPG and cleaner to boot
Diesel will also go through a similar teething cycle, albeit longer IMHO
When the OEMs and lobbyist's (therefore our legislators) see that there is $$$$
in cleaning it up, then they will do something smart and efficient...am I being
a bit jaded ???
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...
rvert10 wrote: If I remember the report you are referring to, China's problem is not the auto, it coal fire industry
The official data do not measure PM 2.5, the most noxious form of pollutant and a major cause is cars and trucks.
Now read this article from 2 years ago... Am I to believe you or this article:
Air, Water Pollution Major Cause of Death and Disease in China
By Emory’s Rollins School of Public Health
Mar 26, 2010 - 1:55:36 PM
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(HealthNewsDigest.com) - ATLANTA – Although China has experienced unprecedented economic growth during the last 15 years, pulling hundreds of millions of its citizens out of poverty, air and water pollution still cause a significant number of deaths and diseases in the country, according to a review published in the March 27, 2010 issue of The Lancet.
The review, published in the journal’s special issue on China, examines air and water quality concerns in China, and the steps the nation has recently taken toward improvement in these areas. Emory University public health researcher Justin Remais, PhD, co-authored the review.
“Facing the overlap of traditional, modern and emerging environmental dilemmas, China has committed substantial resources to environmental improvement,” says Remais, associate professor of environmental and occupational health at Emory’s Rollins School of Public Health. “The country has the opportunity to address its national environmental health challenges and to assume a central role in the international effort to improve the global environment.”
Indoor air pollution from burning solid fuels is one of the main environmental health risk factors, and leads to about 420,000 premature deaths every year, Remais and colleagues note. The major health outcomes associated with air pollution include chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), acute lower respiratory infection and lung cancer.
Outdoor air pollution in China originates from many sources, including residential and industrial coal combustion, a growing transport sector, chemical releases from industry, outdoor burning of agricultural waste, and dust from construction, roads and deserts, the authors say. The economic cost of mortality and morbidity that results from outdoor air pollution in a typical Chinese city was about 10 percent of that city’s gross domestic product in 2000, and, dependent on future technology and policies, this cost is predicted to range from 8 percent to 16 percent by 2020.
The review also notes that a high number of lakes and major rivers in China are classified as severely polluted, with only half of China’s 200 major rivers and less than a quarter of its 28 major lakes and reservoirs suitable for use as drinking water after treatment.
Water pollution is especially severe in rural areas, where few drinking water and sanitation services were in place until the late 1980s and early 1990s, when China’s Patriotic Health Campaign invested enormous resources in improvement of these services. However, coverage remains low, the authors say.
The past 20 years have also witnessed unregulated and increased industrial discharges and excessive use of fertilizers and pesticides in agricultural areas. Recent progress to limit industrial water pollution includes large reported reductions (60 percent to 70 percent by mass) in yearly emissions of arsenic and mercury to water, and construction of more than 60,000 industrial wastewater treatment plants.
The review, “Environmental health in China: Progress towards clean air and safe water,” was published in the March 27 issue of The Lancet.
The research was supported in part by Emory University’s Global Health Institute.
Let me also add that China's problem is affecting Korea, Japan and LA according to an LA Times article I read. I'm just a doubting thomas on enviromental issues of the Auto industry
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rvert10 wrote: If I remember the report you are referring to, China's problem is not the auto, it coal fire industry
The official data do not measure PM 2.5, the most noxious form of pollutant and a major cause is cars and trucks.
Now read this article from 2 years ago... Am I to believe you or this article:
Air, Water Pollution Major Cause of Death and Disease in China
By Emory’s Rollins School of Public Health Mar 26, 2010 - 1:55:36 PM
Let me also add that China's problem is affecting Korea, Japan and LA according to an LA Times article I read. I'm just a doubting thomas on enviromental issues of the Auto industry
If you can show me an Official Chinese Government issued series of data on PM2.5 in Bejing prior to 2012, I will believe you.
Since I know the official data, the fact that Chinese Government do not officially publish PM 2.5 data until recently and only for select places, and your publication makes no reference to PM 2.5 and in fact, cannot make reference to official PM 2.5 data because the series was not public before now, I stand with my facts.
Specifically, here is the announcement of the PM 2.5 data release beginning "spring 2012":
Quote: Beijing to release PM 2.5 data
English.news.cn 2012-01-07 15:12:41
By Zheng Xin
BEIJING, Jan. 07 (Xinhuanet) -- Just before Spring Festival this year, the capital city will start releasing data about the amount of tiny particulate matter that is detected in the air.
The Beijing Municipal Environmental Protection Bureau said it plans for the first time to begin releasing information gathered from efforts to detect the presence of PM 2.5 (particulate matter smaller than 2.5 micrometers). In keeping with other Chinese cities' decisions to tell the public more about airborne pollutants, the bureau will also release data about sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide and larger particles.
The policy change comes after the Ministry of Environmental Protection announced at the end of 2011 that it would adopt a stricter index for gauging air quality, a decision made partly in response to public criticism about the standards that are now used to detect pollution.
That is short for Particulate Matter 2.5 microns or smaller --- I stand with my knowledge that autos and trucks are a major contributor to this category.
Power plants and industry contribute to larger particles.
Do you know the difference between the different categories of pollutants and their most common sources?
If you want to be real clever, there is a series on the PM 2.5 data from the US Embassy here:
rvert10 wrote: If I remember the report you are referring to, China's problem is not the auto, it coal fire industry
The official data do not measure PM 2.5, the most noxious form of pollutant and a major cause is cars and trucks.
Now read this article from 2 years ago... Am I to believe you or this article:
Air, Water Pollution Major Cause of Death and Disease in China
By Emory’s Rollins School of Public Health Mar 26, 2010 - 1:55:36 PM
Let me also add that China's problem is affecting Korea, Japan and LA according to an LA Times article I read. I'm just a doubting thomas on enviromental issues of the Auto industry
If you can show me an Official Chinese Government issued series of data on PM2.5 in Bejing prior to 2012, I will believe you.
Since I know the official data, the fact that Chinese Government do not officially publish PM 2.5 data until recently and only for select places, and your publication makes no reference to PM 2.5 and in fact, cannot make reference to official PM 2.5 data because the series was not public before now, I stand with my facts.
Specifically, here is the announcement of the PM 2.5 data release beginning "spring 2012":
Quote: Beijing to release PM 2.5 data
English.news.cn 2012-01-07 15:12:41
By Zheng Xin
BEIJING, Jan. 07 (Xinhuanet) -- Just before Spring Festival this year, the capital city will start releasing data about the amount of tiny particulate matter that is detected in the air.
The Beijing Municipal Environmental Protection Bureau said it plans for the first time to begin releasing information gathered from efforts to detect the presence of PM 2.5 (particulate matter smaller than 2.5 micrometers). In keeping with other Chinese cities' decisions to tell the public more about airborne pollutants, the bureau will also release data about sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide and larger particles.
The policy change comes after the Ministry of Environmental Protection announced at the end of 2011 that it would adopt a stricter index for gauging air quality, a decision made partly in response to public criticism about the standards that are now used to detect pollution.
That is short for Particulate Matter 2.5 microns or smaller --- I stand with my knowledge that autos and trucks are a major contributor to this category.
Power plants and industry contribute to larger particles.
Do you know the difference between the different categories of pollutants and their most common sources?
If you want to be real clever, there is a series on the PM 2.5 data from the US Embassy here:
No I don't have access to the communist information network or the Communist News Network not to be confused with Ted Turner and CNN.
I do know that those cities mentioned have a pollution problem I don't dispute that. I dispute the technology we have to reduce a pollutant by increasing the use of a nonrenewable resource that is expensive. Next How do I know you're not a communist?
No I don't have access to the communist information network or the Communist News Network not to be confused with Ted Turner and CNN.
I do know that those cities mentioned have a pollution problem I don't dispute that. I dispute the technology we have to reduce a pollutant by increasing the use of a nonrenewable resource that is expensive. Next How do I know you're not a communist?
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