westernrvparkowner wrote: Bingo!!! Perhaps the few people who want to have a very cheap overnight spot with electricity only should refocus their efforts. There have been several informal surveys on these forums asking what people would pay for an easy to get to site with electricity for those quick overnight stops vs staying at Walmart, Cracker Barrel or a roadside rest area. The most common answer was "zero" in a distant second place was $5.00 and about the most was $10.00. Please cite that thread. I recall $8-$15+ and add ~$3 for extremely hot or cold weather There are very, very few owners of RV parks who would put in sites and services for $10.00. Less who would put them in for $5.00 and probably not any at all to collect that lucrative "zero". I don't recall anyone advocating $0 to overnight as described. Also a big concern is how many people who are now paying full rate to overnight would opt for the cheap site and actually cause park revenues to decrease?...I understand your position if parks are full every night. If not, and space is available, running electricity only may be a viable method of increasing income, especially if the park is "conveniently located". On the other hand, if my park was "continiously" full of RV's with full hook ups, rest assured I wouldn't be making more room for people that would yield less profit.
wa8yxm wrote: Someone mentioned 12 bucks a night as being reasonable.
Well during the summer I split my time between two membership campgrounds. The local KOA's start around 80/night for this rig then they add ups cause as you know KOA is "Keep On Adding" I can see pay ing 90-100 a night for a KOA site. but my two memberships combined do not cost that much PER MONTH!!!, yes, I pay between 80 and 80 a MONTH, these memberships get me 2 weeks in one week out, since I ahve two (Different campgrounds) it's full time for under 100/month.
Winters only one of the CG's is below the frost line.. So I get my 2 weeks in (20 days a month) and for the rest (10 days a month) I spend Nov through the last day of Feb at a county park 12/night, all sites, water, 30 or 50 amp (Depending on site) and a dump station, Showers and such as well 12/night. Mar 1 that goes up to 20, I move to the Core of Engineers park, with wife's golden age pass 11/night all 50 amps.
So, can they do it.. I would say yes. COE does it, County does it, Why can't Joe's Campground?
Do you not realize that the COE and the county get tax dollars, don't pay taxes, get the land for free and don't need to turn a profit? Membership parks work (though some surely question how well, since parks like Thousand Trails seem to be going steadily downhill) because someone originally paid a hefty membership fee, have many more members than sites since they count on the fact that only a certain percentage of the membership want a site at any given time. If I could get say ten thousand people to pay me a $5,000 membership fee (that's $50,000,000 for those keeping score) and $80 a month for dues, I would be glad to become member only parks and let members stay 2 weeks a month for no added fees. I would make even more money collecting "membership transfer fees" as those original 10,000 members start selling their memberships for a fraction of the original cost, since they would quickly realize it doesn't really work for them anymore. I would get even more up selling guests to things like 50 amps for $3.00 a night, extra nights depending upon availability for $15 an night and of course I will always be trolling for new $10,000 suckers (I mean members). It is comparing apples to chickens when you compare the monthly dues (conveniently forgetting that initial big membership fee someone paid and leaving out the fact that some people will pay the whole year of monthly dues and never stay a single night) of a membership park to the nightly rate at an independent park that get none of that money.
mockturtle wrote: We've used Comanche Land RV Park in Fort Stockton, TX, on our way to and from Big Bend. Used to be $12 and is now $16. Still a bargain with full hookups and CATV.
X2. If I remember it's the RV park with the big arrow stuck in the sand. Not an especially attractive park but the price is right and the owner is very nice.
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Y'know, I really don't think anybody expects an entrepreneur to purchase some land beside a freeway and install all the infrastructure needed to open a no-frills campground specifically for overnighters.
However, is it REALLY to much to ask for an established, successful campground that is in an easy-off/easy-on position near a freeway, to set aside some space for such sites? Assuming they have land laying there unused, of course.
Apparently, some say "Yes, it is too much to ask!"
But then, others just quietly do it...
One has to wonder...
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I seems to you as if these place don't exist because you haven't found them where you've been. Maybe you are looking in the wrong places.
My experience is that such places do exist in agricultural areas of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, and Illinois. The primary business is housing for seasonal workers, the off-season business is overnighters. Parks may be run by local government or private, and often connected with a gas station or a cheap motel that serves the same clientele, sans RV. I've paid $5 to $20 for electrical hookup, and water hookup or fill, usually about $10.
Most of these are along the numbered U.S. highway system, in small towns bypassed by the Interstate. I've found a few at rural Interstate exits, where the Interstate replace rather than bypassed the old highway. But no so many, land at some of these exits seems to be priced and taxed as if the place was going to be the next Disney World location.
I don't find these places in major metro areas, nor in the suburbs that stretch out along the Interstate 20-50 miles from the big cities. I suspect either land values are too high, or people who run things there don;t want any sort of transient residental business in their neighborhoods.
mowermech wrote: Y'know, I really don't think anybody expects an entrepreneur to purchase some land beside a freeway and install all the infrastructure needed to open a no-frills campground specifically for overnighters.
However, is it REALLY to much to ask for an established, successful campground that is in an easy-off/easy-on position near a freeway, to set aside some space for such sites? Assuming they have land laying there unused, of course.
Apparently, some say "Yes, it is too much to ask!"
But then, others just quietly do it...
One has to wonder...
I still think you would run into the issue of costs to develop said land. To have electricity ran to the sites, pedestals installed. Then to try and cover cost of electricity. I would imagine someone like westernrvparkowner could chime in on the cost to do something of the sort. I'm sure there are some auto magic pedestals that could be used that are based on a timer. They have such thing for dumping already. Maybe charge $1 an hour for electricity for 30 amps and $2 for 50 amps. But it would still take a long tw to recoop the investment.
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mowermech wrote: Y'know, I really don't think anybody expects an entrepreneur to purchase some land beside a freeway and install all the infrastructure needed to open a no-frills campground specifically for overnighters.
However, is it REALLY to much to ask for an established, successful campground that is in an easy-off/easy-on position near a freeway, to set aside some space for such sites? Assuming they have land laying there unused, of course.
Apparently, some say "Yes, it is too much to ask!"
But then, others just quietly do it...
One has to wonder...
It is not necessarily good business. It may not generate more business, just move people from paying the full rate to paying the cheap rate, costing the business money and profit. And someone please tell all us dull witted park owners how do you keep the cheap rate customers from using all the services? Do we check IDs at the restrooms, pools, playgrounds, game rooms and the like? Do we make our full price guests wear badges or wristbands to show they are entitled to use all the facilities? And what is the magic amount that will transform the Wallydocker into a paying customer? And finally, how do we advertise we have this wonderful low rate without upsetting all the full fare guests?
mowermech wrote: Y'know, I really don't think anybody expects an entrepreneur to purchase some land beside a freeway and install all the infrastructure needed to open a no-frills campground specifically for overnighters.
However, is it REALLY to much to ask for an established, successful campground that is in an easy-off/easy-on position near a freeway, to set aside some space for such sites? Assuming they have land laying there unused, of course.
Apparently, some say "Yes, it is too much to ask!"
But then, others just quietly do it...
One has to wonder...
I still think you would run into the issue of costs to develop said land. To have electricity ran to the sites, pedestals installed. Then to try and cover cost of electricity. I would imagine someone like westernrvparkowner could chime in on the cost to do something of the sort. I'm sure there are some auto magic pedestals that could be used that are based on a timer. They have such thing for dumping already. Maybe charge $1 an hour for electricity for 30 amps and $2 for 50 amps. But it would still take a long tw to recoop the investment.
If you own the land, probably would cost between $5,000 to $15,000 per site. Figures include pedastal, wiring, water line, plumber and electrician (most states require master licensed professionals for any commercial installation, can't do it yourself even if you want to), trenching, parking pad, roads, and a whole lot of permitting fees. If on a well and septic system, plan on expanding both, since you are required to have ample sizing by law, even if the sites are not on the septic or water line. Still have to clean up the sites, maintain them, repair them, provide insurance and security and collect the money. By law, you have to provide restrooms (though some states will allow you to restrict your occupancy to fully self contained rigs as long as you have full hookups and get a waiver for the restrooms) Also have to advertise, otherwise the Wal Mart stays full and your cheapo sites stay empty. Once everything is in place and removing the labor, advertising, repairs and maintenance costs, your pure marginal costs (water, electricity and sewer costs and credit card fees if you take cards) would be around $5 or $6 a night. At a $15.00 rate, you would make around $10.00 to start covering those other costs and start paying for the site construction. You might get back to even in about 20 years, if you are lucky and nothing goes terribly wrong.
mowermech wrote: Y'know, I really don't think anybody expects an entrepreneur to purchase some land beside a freeway and install all the infrastructure needed to open a no-frills campground specifically for overnighters.
However, is it REALLY to much to ask for an established, successful campground that is in an easy-off/easy-on position near a freeway, to set aside some space for such sites? Assuming they have land laying there unused, of course.
Apparently, some say "Yes, it is too much to ask!"
But then, others just quietly do it...
One has to wonder...
It is not necessarily good business. It may not generate more business, just move people from paying the full rate to paying the cheap rate, costing the business money and profit. And someone please tell all us dull witted park owners how do you keep the cheap rate customers from using all the services? Do we check IDs at the restrooms, pools, playgrounds, game rooms and the like? Do we make our full price guests wear badges or wristbands to show they are entitled to use all the facilities? And what is the magic amount that will transform the Wallydocker into a paying customer? And finally, how do we advertise we have this wonderful low rate without upsetting all the full fare guests?
Yea, I'm not sure that the ones who are pushing this are really thinking about how you segregate the overnighter from using all the amenities. And we all know most people will figure out a way to use the park in full and try to get the overnight rate.
Personally, I would rather not the CG's I frequent fill up with wallydockers who don't want to pay anything to camp. If that is what they want, zero frills, I'd prefer they stay at wally world because I enjoy amenities and don't want CG's to become poorly maintained to accomodate the new lower paying guest crowd.
Once CG's begin that business model, so many expenses will be cut to break even everyone might as well overnight at Walmart.
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