westernrvparkowner wrote: Membership parks work (though some surely question how well, since parks like Thousand Trails seem to be going steadily downhill) because someone originally paid a hefty membership fee, have many more members than sites since they count on the fact that only a certain percentage of the membership want a site at any given time.
Much clipped to save space.
Many more members than sites.. So that's why about half the park I am parked in now is roped off and closed.. Because they don't have enough sites to go around. Interesting.
Of course this is just one park,, I do admit to seeing another TT park with only one vacant site on occasion.. Very rare occasion (And only one occasion. July-4 as I recall)
I do agree however they messed up, they should have invested that big up-front fee so that it would return to them over and over. But instead they blew it.
As for County and COE,, Yes, I am aware of the difference, but you see the county compared the cost of closing the campground for the winter to renting out sites for 12 bucks a night.. The COE did the same thing (By the way you'd pay 22, I pay 11 due to wife's golden age half off card).
In both cases they found that it was better to have income than no income.
Now if you go the local "Private campground" the taxes on site number 27 .. They are the same if it's vacent or short term occupied (Long term occupied might increase them depending on the government regs where it's located) so, Is it better to have the site sit there COSTING MONEY, or sit there bringing in at least 2x the cost of water, sewer and electric? (Someone said you can burn up to around 5.00 worth of electricity a day, 12 bucks leaves you money over for water and sewer)
That was kind of the discussion at the county board.. And they (WIthout the benefit of paying county tax, and with free land) decided income was better than idle.
That was the purposal. low cost overnight.. Trying to lure folks away from Wal-mart basically.
I can tell you the difference for me between an overnight in a RV park and a Wal-mart or J is just that 12 bucks, For 12 bucks, I can park on a site, instead of running the genny, and eat in, instead of out.
Nothin adds excitment like something that is none of your business
Kenwood TS-2000 housed in a 2005 Damon Intruder 377
westernrvparkowner wrote: Membership parks work (though some surely question how well, since parks like Thousand Trails seem to be going steadily downhill) because someone originally paid a hefty membership fee, have many more members than sites since they count on the fact that only a certain percentage of the membership want a site at any given time.
Much clipped to save space.
Many more members than sites.. So that's why about half the park I am parked in now is roped off and closed.. Because they don't have enough sites to go around. Interesting.
Of course this is just one park,, I do admit to seeing another TT park with only one vacant site on occasion.. Very rare occasion (And only one occasion. July-4 as I recall)
I do agree however they messed up, they should have invested that big up-front fee so that it would return to them over and over. But instead they blew it.
As for County and COE,, Yes, I am aware of the difference, but you see the county compared the cost of closing the campground for the winter to renting out sites for 12 bucks a night.. The COE did the same thing (By the way you'd pay 22, I pay 11 due to wife's golden age half off card).
In both cases they found that it was better to have income than no income.
Now if you go the local "Private campground" the taxes on site number 27 .. They are the same if it's vacent or short term occupied (Long term occupied might increase them depending on the government regs where it's located) so, Is it better to have the site sit there COSTING MONEY, or sit there bringing in at least 2x the cost of water, sewer and electric? (Someone said you can burn up to around 5.00 worth of electricity a day, 12 bucks leaves you money over for water and sewer)
That was kind of the discussion at the county board.. And they (WIthout the benefit of paying county tax, and with free land) decided income was better than idle.
That was the purposal. low cost overnight.. Trying to lure folks away from Wal-mart basically.
I can tell you the difference for me between an overnight in a RV park and a Wal-mart or J is just that 12 bucks, For 12 bucks, I can park on a site, instead of running the genny, and eat in, instead of out.
I guess you and I will never see eye to eye. Yes, Thousand Trails and the Membership parks have way, way more members than sites. They plan on people paying their dues and not staying. For every person in a site, they probably have 10 people paying the dues while their rig sits elsewhere. That is how they are able to offer sites for $80 monthly dues.
If you have a steak restaurant, and you are half full, would you offer steak dinners for half price to fill the other half? If you did, wouldn't the people who were already planning on eating there want the half price meal also? If they did, you would be feeding twice the number of people and making the same amount of money. People paying $40 or $50 a night to stay in a park are going to be pretty upset others get to stay there for $12.00.
Finally, and please take no offense, I am not waiting on anyone for a lousy $12.00 before or after expenses. My time is more valuable than that.
Actually I do understand what you are saying about TT and the like.
Still, that is not really my point, if you want to park here as a nin-member I think it's 35 bucks a night could be more. and though half the park is "closed" the half that's open is .. "Well occupied".
My point is that both the county and the COE, a year or two ago, came to realize that an empty campground is a liability, having people parked and paying, even if it's only 11-12/night, is better than 0.00/night.
I'd think this would apply to all parks in fact. Might need to go say 15 for a overnighter.
I could see having a few sites at a CG that are electric, or water/electric only and are pull through, just for overnighters.
pull in, plug in pay the Overnight fee, leave tomorrow. (Use dump station if needed but no hook up on site)
Occupied sites make more sense than vacant sites is my point.
I would gladly pay 15 or 20 bucks at a truckstop, cracker barrel, or walmart that is close to the interstate. With gas so high it will cost that much for the honda 3000 to run all night, plus I would'nt have to haul the genny around.
JJBIRISH wrote: Its really great reading and I am looking forward to see the business plan for such a deal…
What is overnight to begin with??? Someone said 8 hours… so if your are in by 6 you must be out by 4AM or in by midnight and out by 8...
What level of security??? All pull threw sites??? Long enough and wide enough for the big rigs??? (Remember I have seen how some of you drive and those pedestals are expensive to replace)… Well maintained roads and parking areas of coarse… electric at each site to run AC, electric heaters when its cold, electric hot water for our showers and fridge so we can also save and lower our propane cost… how about garbage pick-up, or just dumpster service??? I know a dump station would be required or some of those stinky gray tanks will be dumped on the ground by some of our more privileged travelers for the next guy to deal with… all for $10, and still some would not be satisfied with the cost when WM is free…
How many sites should be provided for??? 5 or 50... Should the have a automated sign at the highway so you don’t exit only to find them filled… should they take reservations???
Don’t worry about the land value and cost, the debt service or taxes on it, the maintenance cost and other fixed cost associated with it… heck you are getting $10 a day for just a 1/3 of the day, the income potential is limitless…
I am really surprised the Bill Lear or one of his counterparts didn’t come up with a idea to fill this critical need…
There are cheap and dying CG all along the interstates, but what I hear most often about them is I wouldn’t stay there… the few being quietly built that I have seen are not $10 a night...
I really hope someone comes up with a workable plan for this, but I won’t hold my breath waiting for it to happen…
there is and will always be a huge market for cheap and free…
Someone with commonsense and business sense!
It's beginning to sound more and more hilarious - all the posts where people expect that there are so many CGs and parks that should be clammering for their $10 a night business. Walmart can provide overnights for free because they already have a huge parking lot - it is needed for their business that has nothing to do with a CG so overnighting or not, they have to build that parking lot, while a CG's ENTIRE business is profiting from the site reservation fees.
It's also amusing that often some of the tightest people in regards to paying for sites drive the most expensive and fancy of rigs.
* This post was
edited 04/05/12 09:41am by JayWalker2009 *
sonicsix wrote: No one running a park wants to just earn a living, they want to get rich. Generally speaking, of course.
I do not agree with this statement.
Resorts maybe. Mom and Pops just barely paying the bills. And making a living.
I suggest you sit down and talk with campground owners this next year.
They may want to get rich but are not. Most people that buy a campground have a love for this kind of business and work very hard to be successful. Much harder than if they worked for someone else.
Pogoil.
Now one Hotel I have stayed at. "Rack Rate" Which is what RVers pay at parks by the way, the equivlent of "Rack Rate" was 240/night.. I paid 90. Why, well a special rate had been negotiated so that a group of us were there. I have gone to a few events where I stayed in different hotels, 100/night was more than I have ever paid, but the rack rates ranged from 150 to higher than the one I mentioned above.
Companies like Expedia, Priceline, Travelocity and so on specialize in putting traverlers in un-sold seats and un-rented hotel rooms at bargain rates.
The hotel owners know that income EVEN IF IT iS JUST ENOUGH TO COVER THE COST OF MAINTINING THE ROOM, is better than empty.
Same with airlines. Since the plane is going to fly, Selling a seat for say 50 bucks, when it normally sells for a hundred is still better than flying with it empty.
So why does this not apply to RV parks.. Some of them WILL negotiate a deal if say 10 or 20 or more campers want to rent a block of sites.
But my situtation is in the summer, I do not need by the night parking,
In the winter I have choices, including COE parks that are cheaper. so I choose them.
sonicsix wrote: No one running a park wants to just earn a living, they want to get rich. Generally speaking, of course.
Many people WANT to get rich, but most don't. To include most CG owners.
The CG owners I know are far from rich, and work a heck of a lot more hours than most people do. I am sure the national chains make a good deal of money, but why not when the major hotel chains do as well. An RV park that does very well should not have to give extra money away just so they don't have a nice bank roll. They are a business, just like any other business. The smaller ones struggle, the big chains do very well. There is nothing wrong with the ones who succeed doing so.
There is such a huge untouch with the real business world with some of the users responding here.
It would not make sense for a destination type park to put in cheap spots. They have already spent the money putting in the pool laundry and bathhouses, and you are paying full price. But it could make sense for Pilot, FJ, Loves or the like to do it. They already have spaces for RV's, put in the electric power and charge $2 hr for it. They want you to stop so they can make the money on the fuel and stuff in their store. If it makes sense to put in the IdleAir for $2 hr, electric hookups should also.
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