wolfe10
Texas
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Joined: 10/08/2000
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The stiffer EPA regulations that lead to ULSD/DPF filters went into effect on engines built on or after 1/1/07 not 2008.
Urea injection and/or very high EGR went into effect with engines built on or after 1/1/10.
Brett Wolfe
1997 Safari Sahara 3540
EX: 1993 Foretravel 36' U-240
FMCA Forum: www.community.fmca.com/index
Diesel RV Club:http://www.dieselrvclub.org/
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tyoungs
Brighton, Michigan USA
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Joined: 04/08/2003
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Brett is exactly correct on when the regulations changed based on engine build date. I would add to Brett's explanation that those dates do not necessarily align with your coach build date. For example, our last coach was a 2008 HR Endeavor purchased in May of 2007 but it still had a pre-DPF Cummins 400 ISL in it (means that engine was built prior to 1/1/07). Our new coach, purchased in May of 2011, is a 2011 HR Endeavor which has a DPF but pre Urea 425 Cummins in it (means engine was built between 1/1/07 and 1/1/10).
The coach builder determines the model year of the "completed vehicle" while the build date of the engine determines what emission standard it must meet. So, as you get close to and cross over a break point for emissions standard changes, often times a manufacturer will "stock up" on the previous system to avoid the increased costs for as long as possible. You just need to be aware that there are many coaches out there in the 2008 model year that were built with non-DPF engines that had been stockpiled.
Having owned both a non-DPF 400 Cummins, and now a DPF equipped 425 Cummins, I would not hesitate to recommend anything with a DPF. I am actually getting better fuel economy with a larger coach with a larger engine and DPF than I did without the DPF. This is most likely due to the fact that w/o a DPF, all the "clean-up" has to happen in-cylinder through calibration of the combustin process. The most effective combustion for low emissions may not be the most efficient combustion for fuel economy and performance.
When you add a DPF and can do some of the clean-up with an "after treatment" device, you can tune the combustion cycle to be more efficient for power and fuel economy because the "device" will do some of the clean-up work.
This is exactly what happened when catalytic converters were first added to gasoline engine vehicles. Instead of having to jack the calibration all around to meet the standards, you could calibrate for better performance and driveability because the aftertreatment device (the catalytic converter) worked on the hot exhaust to catalyze a reaction that converted pollutants into harmless substances like water vapor and CO2.
Tom & Mary plus Snowflake the Bichon
2011 HR Endeavor 43DFT,
425 Cummins w/ Horton Fan
HRRVC #106803, FMCA #F358972
2009 Saturn Outlook toad
RV.NET Rallies attended - 6
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DesertYeti
Anywhere
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Joined: 03/20/2007
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Thanks Brett and tyoungs for the explanations. I guess we have more questions to ask the salesman (which he probably won't know lol) before we purchase anything.
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J&R
jefferson,ga
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Joined: 11/06/2005
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wolfe10 wrote:The stiffer EPA regulations that lead to ULSD/DPF filters went into effect on engines built on or after 1/1/07 not 2008.
Urea injection and/or very high EGR went into effect with engines built on or after 1/1/10. That is correct "built on or after 1/1/07" but many installed in 08 vehicles. Thats why EPA rephased the 2010 mandate.
Ron & Joanne 06 Revolution LE 40E
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Jarlaxle
New England
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Joined: 11/18/2006
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moisheh wrote:jarlaxle: You are posting information that is not accurate. They do not dump fuel into the DPF. When it goes in to a FULL regen it injects MINUTE amounts of fuel. I doubt you could measure the volumes. Our unit is an 08 with 35,000 miles and it has only had 2 full regens. When it goes into a passive regen no diesel is injected.
Moisheh
That must be why DPF engines burn more fuel and dilute the oil. (Note: Rams with the DPF system have their oil change intervals HALVED!) The extra fuel consumption is substantial.
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with 3 nutty cats
My beloved St. Bernard, Marm, lost him 1/2/12
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion
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rvrepairnut
bc
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Joined: 11/11/2011
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Jarlaxle wrote:moisheh wrote:jarlaxle: You are posting information that is not accurate. They do not dump fuel into the DPF. When it goes in to a FULL regen it injects MINUTE amounts of fuel. I doubt you could measure the volumes. Our unit is an 08 with 35,000 miles and it has only had 2 full regens. When it goes into a passive regen no diesel is injected.
Moisheh
That must be why DPF engines burn more fuel and dilute the oil. (Note: Rams with the DPF system have their oil change intervals HALVED!) The extra fuel consumption is substantial.
my cummins 425 DPF engine has 20000 mile oil change intervals
hardly cut in 1/2 from my 350 non dpf engine that had a 15000 mile oil change interval
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Mr.Mark
California/Tennessee
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Joined: 09/24/2006
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Jarlaxle wrote:moisheh wrote:jarlaxle: You are posting information that is not accurate. They do not dump fuel into the DPF. When it goes in to a FULL regen it injects MINUTE amounts of fuel. I doubt you could measure the volumes. Our unit is an 08 with 35,000 miles and it has only had 2 full regens. When it goes into a passive regen no diesel is injected.
Moisheh
That must be why DPF engines burn more fuel and dilute the oil. (Note: Rams with the DPF system have their oil change intervals HALVED!) The extra fuel consumption is substantial.
I'm not a gear-head so how does fuel spraying in a separate exhaust device dilute the oil? I have our oil changed every 10,000 miles but I think the interval is every 15,000 miles. It makes it easier for me to keep on a regular schedule. I know that every 5,000 miles I need to go in for service as the chassis needs to be lubed every 5,000 miles, so every other chassis lube I get an oil and filter change. 
MM.
Mr.Mark 
2008 Monaco Dynasty, 42.2 ft., 4 slides, 425 hp clean-air Cummins diesel
2013 Honda CR-V EXL, AWD, w/Nav, SMI Air Force One vacuum-assisted braking
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nevadanick
Elko, Nevada
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Joined: 11/25/2007
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Some of them inject fuel into a cylinder on exhaust stroke instead of into exhaust pipe therefore washing the cyclinder and diluting the oil. I dont know if they do it on MH chassis for sure but that is how its done on Dodge pickup.
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Jarlaxle
New England
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Joined: 11/18/2006
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rvrepairnut wrote:Jarlaxle wrote:moisheh wrote:jarlaxle: You are posting information that is not accurate. They do not dump fuel into the DPF. When it goes in to a FULL regen it injects MINUTE amounts of fuel. I doubt you could measure the volumes. Our unit is an 08 with 35,000 miles and it has only had 2 full regens. When it goes into a passive regen no diesel is injected.
Moisheh
That must be why DPF engines burn more fuel and dilute the oil. (Note: Rams with the DPF system have their oil change intervals HALVED!) The extra fuel consumption is substantial.
my cummins 425 DPF engine has 20000 mile oil change intervals
hardly cut in 1/2 from my 350 non dpf engine that had a 15000 mile oil change interval
You are comparing apples and rutabagas. The 350 would be the 8.3 ISC, the 425HP Cummins would be the bigger engine (ISM, maybe)...since it holds more oil (as I recall, it holds about three times the oil!), OF COURSE it has a longer OCI!
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DesertYeti
Anywhere
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Joined: 03/20/2007
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Another question - I just read on another form that the C7 is not as good of an engine as the Cummins. I always heard Cat was a good engine. Any thoughts on this? Thanks.
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