3LittleDucks wrote: Thanks Skip, I figured they were pretty much the same. Confusing with different manufacturers using different terms. :/
you betcha. and it gets worse with NCC, CCC, SCWR, etc. once you know precisely what your RV weighs empty...the way you picked it up from the dealer...no LP, no water, no food, no stuff, no pets, no people, you can easily calculate the payload. payload would be the difference between the gross vehicle weight rating and the empty weight. with a motorhome you also have to pay close attention to axle weight ratings but this method is a lot simpler than trying to decipher the muddled mess of a system in use now.
73,
rich, n9dko www.bananaboatbytes.com
I know a guy who's addicted to brake fulid. He says he can stop anytime.
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2000 Itasca Suncruiser 35U
'46 Willys CJ2A
'03 Jeep Wrangler TJ
'10 Jeep Liberty KK
I don't understand all the number crunching!
I just don't CARE what the Unladen Vehicle Weight is, or the Curb Weight, or the Dry Weight. I will tow a camp/travel trailer at that weight just once, when I bring it home. From then on, it will have assorted personal gear in it, and the ONLY weight I need to be concerned with is the Gross Weight, or GVW. Ideally, the GVW should be less than the Gross Vehicle Weight RATING (GVWR), and the tongue weight should be about 10 to 15% of the GVW.
If the GVW is slightly over the GVWR, I'm not too concerned about it. I just don't think a couple hundred pounds is going to break a spring on the trailer, or damage the tow vehicle, or create death destruction and/or mayhem on the highway.
IMO, quit worrying and go camping.
CM1, USN (RET)
2002 Fleetwood Southwind 32V, Ford V10
Toad: 2006 Jeep Rubicon LJ
Other toad: '06 PT Cruiser, Kar Kaddy dolly
Toy: 1977 Dodge W100 CC SWB, 3/4 ton axles & springs
"When seconds count, help is only minutes away!"
Thanks for some other perspectives. I agree completely. I think 3500 is somewhat arbitrary, there are so many minivans on the market with the same tow rating. Surely there is variation between makes & models. I bet some are much better off staying under 3000 and others are quite good up to 4000. Overall I think it's better to tow less than to tow more, but as with most vehicle accidents speeding/reckless driving are usually the causes. Prudent driving, not trying to kill it uphill, well maintained & set trailer brakes, tranny cooler and a WD hitch can go a long way. imho. Still undecided, taking the PUP to the weigh scale today for a clear comparison, and trying to get tongue weights with a bathroom scale (so yeah, still number crunching).
3LittleDucks wrote: Thanks for some other perspectives. I agree completely. I think 3500 is somewhat arbitrary, there are so many minivans on the market with the same tow rating. Surely there is variation between makes & models. I bet some are much better off staying under 3000 and others are quite good up to 4000. Overall I think it's better to tow less than to tow more, but as with most vehicle accidents speeding/reckless driving are usually the causes. Prudent driving, not trying to kill it uphill, well maintained & set trailer brakes, tranny cooler and a WD hitch can go a long way. imho. Still undecided, taking the PUP to the weigh scale today for a clear comparison, and trying to get tongue weights with a bathroom scale (so yeah, still number crunching).
tow capabilities are a mixture of a lot of factors. weight of the tow vehicle, transmission, axle ratio to name a few. but the weight rating of the hitch is also a factor. no expert here but i'm pretty sure that a Class II hitch has a weight rating of 3500-lbs (Class III 5000-lbs; Class IV 10K-lbs). so even if a particular vehicle *could* tow more weight the limiting factor is gonna be the hitch. whether that same vehicle could accept a Class III hitch is a different discussion.
I see, that makes sense too. I thought they gave them all the exact same rating for simplicity, but if the class II hitch is the limiting factor then that is a consideration as well. Then perhaps there is more variation in GCWR than there appears (particularly re weight in the tow vehicle), but I do prefer to be comfortably under the limit.
skipnchar wrote: Unloaded vehicle weight and dry weight are the same thing.
I'm sorry, but I believe you are mistaken, at least according to the way many people define these terms.
Dry weight is a number listed in the specifications and sales brochures of just about all manufacturers. This number is not measured, but is supposedly calculated based on a specific trailer model with no options. Most of the brochures actually say that somewhere in the footnotes. Actually, most folks seem to think the number is mostly advertising fantasy and bears no relationship to reality. That is certainly my experience with the new trailer I bought last year.
Manufacturers are now required to either weigh or otherwise precisely determine the weight of each trailer as it leaves the factory. This weight is listed on a yellow sticker somewhere on the exterior of the vehicle. It may or may not include assumptions about the weight of full propane bottles or batteries but if it does, those items will be mentioned on the same yellow sticker. This number is what I understand to be unloaded vehicle weight, and unlike dry weight, it can be used to accurately calculate the weight of the vehicle when loaded. It was certainly an accurate weight when I used it to calculate the trailer weight and then compared it to what I measured on a set of commercial scales. Of course, you have to know the weight of the stuff you are putting in it if you want to estimate actual weight.
In conclusion, my opinion is that only UVW is of any real value in estimating towed weight.
Cedarhill wrote: ...In conclusion, my opinion is that only UVW is of any real value in estimating towed weight.
yes and the operative word is "estimating". buyers would be very smart to insist on having the exact weight of the unit being purchased...by axle in the case of multi-axled RVs.
3LittleDucks wrote: Thanks Skip, I figured they were pretty much the same. Confusing with different manufacturers using different terms. :/
you betcha. and it gets worse with NCC, CCC, SCWR, etc. once you know precisely what your RV weighs empty...the way you picked it up from the dealer...no LP, no water, no food, no stuff, no pets, no people, you can easily calculate the payload. payload would be the difference between the gross vehicle weight rating and the empty weight. with a motorhome you also have to pay close attention to axle weight ratings but this method is a lot simpler than trying to decipher the muddled mess of a system in use now.
My take on payload is a little different in that I pay more attention to the axle loads that the GVWR because the TW only goes against the TV numbers. For example my UVW and dry tongue wt. specs are 49xx and 549 with a GVWR of 7549 with two 3500lb axles. I often have 6800 to 6900 lbs on the axles per scaled numbers with a 900lb tongue wt. so I am actually over the GVWR of the trailer by 150 to almost 300lbs.
IMO about the only useful numbers in TT brochures are the CCC, dry hitch wt., GVWR along with the floorplan and where the storage is. This gives you at least a WAG on what you might expect how much that dry hitch wt. can be and a WAG on how much you can add before exceeding the true numbers to watch which are the axle wts.
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