not sure where some of the info comes from that other have posted, but prior to purchasing mine i checked with ford and all this is on their website.
250 has vaccum boost, 350 up has hydro
250 has a slightly smaller rear with smaller axle shafts than the 350, both are full floating with similiar ratios, 3:31 or 3:55 for diesel srw
250 does not have the overload springs unless you order a camper package.
There is no software difference, there is no frame, engine, tranny or transfer case difference until you get to the ones that offer pto in chassis.
i also dont see an issue with your trailer size on a 250, i went from a 2008 350 to my 250...yes the price drove me to the sale.
2011 F250 CC LB, 6.7 urine injection
2007 keystone Outback Sydney 32BHDS
2009 HD Ultra CVO
2013 CanAm Outlander 1000
1963 Wife..no mods
As far as I know, the only difference in a 2005 F250 and 2005 F350 is that the 350 will have a larger block under the rear springs, and an overload spring (and the fact that the 350 has a higher rating on the door sticker). Axles, powertrain, frame, brakes, etc, etc, will be identical. It's very easy to change out the blocks if you'd like, and add an overload spring (or air bags). This won't technically increase the number on the door sticker, but you'll be set up just like an F350 would have been from the factory.
4x4ord wrote: Even if the software is slightly different I can't imagine it making any difference to you or me using the truck - not when the fifth wheel tow rating is virtually the same on the two trucks anyway.
Without trying too hard, it is possible to raise the tow ratings by 25% with software.
That is not small or slight difference.
As I read your posts regarding software capabilities it amazes me to learn what software can do but in the case of the 250 vs 350 the tow ratings are virtually identical (in the case of 4x2's they are identical and 4x4 CC 350 vs 250 is only 100 lbs different) so why would you expect the software to be so different?
2011 F350 SRW short box 4x4 CC 6.7 PS King Ranch
B&W TurnoverBall and Companion
2003 Citation Supreme 34 RLTS
4x4ord wrote: Even if the software is slightly different I can't imagine it making any difference to you or me using the truck - not when the fifth wheel tow rating is virtually the same on the two trucks anyway.
Without trying too hard, it is possible to raise the tow ratings by 25% with software.
That is not small or slight difference.
As I read your posts regarding software capabilities it amazes me to learn what software can do but in the case of the 250 vs 350 the tow ratings are virtually identical (in the case of 4x2's they are identical and 4x4 CC 350 vs 250 is only 100 lbs different) so why would you expect the software to be so different?
I don't think Ford / GM / Chrysler have actually implemented what I am talking about --- at least not very aggressively.
Here is how it would be done.
Whenever a vehicle is designed now, a Finite Element Analysis (FEM) model is built that approximates the vehicle.
It looks like this:
Once it is built, it is possible to do a computer simulation of the vehicle and how it bends, twists, and stresses as different loads happen.
One can "hang" on the back of this thing a simulated load (trailer, etc.) and then "drive" it on a simulation with acceleration, braking, turning, etc. and see how things bend, twist, etc.
One can visualize the parts, and see how it actually behaves in the simulation when subject to a load.
Program in the estimated creep strength, yield points, and the simulation will actually show you what happens when something breaks.
Visualize the same simulation done for braking, where there is a thermal model, a stress field model, etc. and the simulation can show how a heavy trailer might load the brakes.
Doing the simulation right avoids problems like the frame seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j3PWGRrCZ4
The real neat aspect of simulations is they can show dynamic changes, not just static.
So how does this raise the tow rating?
Once a manufacturer has the simulation done right, it is possible to predict when the stress will exceed limits in the vehicle.
The limits are never the same --- varies by speed, temperature, actual stress, and many other things.
Knowing those factors that can overload the vehicle at the point of maximum stress, the software can be programmed to deliberately "let off" the stress at key points.
For example, if a user put maximum payload (and overload) on the vehicle, the computer can calculate that the payload is at maximum, figure out the places and causes of maximum stress (e.g. full throttle uphill acceleration or emergency braking with rear brakes failing), and then tweak it to prevent the stress limits from being exceeded.
Things like Electronic Stability Control (selective control of brakes and throttle) etc. are great for altering the stresses and moving the stress from one critical part to another place that is better suited.
This is routinely done for aircraft --- your average Airbus now are completely computer controlled and it will not let you do a maneuver that will break the plane.
I can go into a much more detailed explanation of how simulations can be used to generate a model of the vehicle --- and then the programming put inside to help one raise the tow rating.
Bet you that the tow rating race cost plenty of computation hours in doing this kind of work.
Here is a thermal simulation of a brake:
and what happens when a brake cools:
Or tires:
* This post was
edited 04/12/12 01:36pm by NewsW *
4x4ord wrote: Even if the software is slightly different I can't imagine it making any difference to you or me using the truck - not when the fifth wheel tow rating is virtually the same on the two trucks anyway.
Without trying too hard, it is possible to raise the tow ratings by 25% with software.
That is not small or slight difference.
As I read your posts regarding software capabilities it amazes me to learn what software can do but in the case of the 250 vs 350 the tow ratings are virtually identical (in the case of 4x2's they are identical and 4x4 CC 350 vs 250 is only 100 lbs different) so why would you expect the software to be so different?
I don't think Ford / GM / Chrysler have actually implemented what I am talking about --- at least not very aggressively.
Here is how it would be done.
Whenever a vehicle is designed now, a Finite Element Analysis (FEM) model is built that approximates the vehicle.
It looks like this:
Once it is built, it is possible to do a computer simulation of the vehicle and how it bends, twists, and stresses as different loads happen.
One can "hang" on the back of this thing a simulated load (trailer, etc.) and then "drive" it on a simulation with acceleration, braking, turning, etc. and see how things bend, twist, etc.
One can visualize the parts, and see how it actually behaves in the simulation when subject to a load.
Program in the estimated creep strength, yield points, and the simulation will actually show you what happens when something breaks.
Visualize the same simulation done for braking, where there is a thermal model, a stress field model, etc. and the simulation can show how a heavy trailer might load the brakes.
Doing the simulation right avoids problems like the frame seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j3PWGRrCZ4
The real neat aspect of simulations is they can show dynamic changes, not just static.
So how does this raise the tow rating?
Once a manufacturer has the simulation done right, it is possible to predict when the stress will exceed limits in the vehicle.
The limits are never the same --- varies by speed, temperature, actual stress, and many other things.
Knowing those factors that can overload the vehicle at the point of maximum stress, the software can be programmed to deliberately "let off" the stress at key points.
For example, if a user put maximum payload (and overload) on the vehicle, the computer can calculate that the payload is at maximum, figure out the places and causes of maximum stress (e.g. full throttle uphill acceleration or emergency braking with rear brakes failing), and then tweak it to prevent the stress limits from being exceeded.
Things like Electronic Stability Control (selective control of brakes and throttle) etc. are great for altering the stresses and moving the stress from one critical part to another place that is better suited.
This is routinely done for aircraft --- your average Airbus now are completely computer controlled and it will not let you do a maneuver that will break the plane.
I can go into a much more detailed explanation of how simulations can be used to generate a model of the vehicle --- and then the programming put inside to help one raise the tow rating.
Bet you that the tow rating race cost plenty of computation hours in doing this kind of work.
Here is a thermal simulation of a brake:
and what happens when a brake cools:
Or tires:
Nice pretty pictures and all but you never did answer the question. If the parts are the same how does software change that?
~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~
"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"
Ok, a half ton is not going to miraculously turn into a F250/350 with a simple SW change. F250 and F350 are similar but frames and running gear are MUCH bigger on those than a F150. Also there's the matter of wheels and tires.
The half ton trucks on the market are fair TV's but don't delude yourselves into thinking there's a 1 ton truck hiding under the shiny stuff.
Scott, Grace and Wesly
2003 Dodge 3500 4x4, 6 speed Cummins (lightly bombed),
2004 Forest River 25RKS many, many mods.
H0NDA eu2000i
4x4ord wrote: Even if the software is slightly different I can't imagine it making any difference to you or me using the truck - not when the fifth wheel tow rating is virtually the same on the two trucks anyway.
Without trying too hard, it is possible to raise the tow ratings by 25% with software.
That is not small or slight difference.
As I read your posts regarding software capabilities it amazes me to learn what software can do but in the case of the 250 vs 350 the tow ratings are virtually identical (in the case of 4x2's they are identical and 4x4 CC 350 vs 250 is only 100 lbs different) so why would you expect the software to be so different?
I don't think Ford / GM / Chrysler have actually implemented what I am talking about --- at least not very aggressively.
Here is how it would be done.
Whenever a vehicle is designed now, a Finite Element Analysis (FEM) model is built that approximates the vehicle.
It looks like this:
Once it is built, it is possible to do a computer simulation of the vehicle and how it bends, twists, and stresses as different loads happen.
One can "hang" on the back of this thing a simulated load (trailer, etc.) and then "drive" it on a simulation with acceleration, braking, turning, etc. and see how things bend, twist, etc.
One can visualize the parts, and see how it actually behaves in the simulation when subject to a load.
Program in the estimated creep strength, yield points, and the simulation will actually show you what happens when something breaks.
Visualize the same simulation done for braking, where there is a thermal model, a stress field model, etc. and the simulation can show how a heavy trailer might load the brakes.
Doing the simulation right avoids problems like the frame seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j3PWGRrCZ4
The real neat aspect of simulations is they can show dynamic changes, not just static.
So how does this raise the tow rating?
Once a manufacturer has the simulation done right, it is possible to predict when the stress will exceed limits in the vehicle.
The limits are never the same --- varies by speed, temperature, actual stress, and many other things.
Knowing those factors that can overload the vehicle at the point of maximum stress, the software can be programmed to deliberately "let off" the stress at key points.
For example, if a user put maximum payload (and overload) on the vehicle, the computer can calculate that the payload is at maximum, figure out the places and causes of maximum stress (e.g. full throttle uphill acceleration or emergency braking with rear brakes failing), and then tweak it to prevent the stress limits from being exceeded.
Things like Electronic Stability Control (selective control of brakes and throttle) etc. are great for altering the stresses and moving the stress from one critical part to another place that is better suited.
This is routinely done for aircraft --- your average Airbus now are completely computer controlled and it will not let you do a maneuver that will break the plane.
I can go into a much more detailed explanation of how simulations can be used to generate a model of the vehicle --- and then the programming put inside to help one raise the tow rating.
Bet you that the tow rating race cost plenty of computation hours in doing this kind of work.
Here is a thermal simulation of a brake:
and what happens when a brake cools:
Or tires:
VERY COOL STUFF Thanks for posting that News
BManning baking in Phoenix
2008 Ford Super Duty F250 XLT, 4x4, crew cab, 6.75' bed
5.4L V8 300hp/365ft-lb, 5sp Torqshift, 4.30 AAM gears
9400lb GVW 11200lb tow
2007 Volvo XC90 AWD V8
4.4L 311hp/325ft-lb, 6sp Aisin, loaded
6100lb GVW 5000lb tow
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