WyoTraveler wrote: I wouldn't jump to conclusions before I did more investigating. If everyone was going to run away from flexing trailer frames there wouldn't be any flat bed semi-trailers on the road today. Ever noticed the huge upward bow in the middle of an empty flat bed semi-trailer?
That upward bow in the empty trailer is not so heavy cargo rolls off the trailer easier. Yep, it flexes as it is loaded.
ok so investigation is now complete. it has been confirmed by not one but two Jayco dealers and for sure the frame should not give. and me still not being satisfied,,,, I went and cranked up another Jayco (2007)29X and no give in the A_frame even lifting it off the ground,
Wills250psd wrote: Actually the weight was already on the tounge with the jack down. maybe the rear stabilizers were down giveing the rear nowhere to go and it was picking up the whole thing?
That sounds more like it
yes all stabilizers where down I didn`t notice if the front ones had weight on them
Think about it. you would not have been able to "unload" the front jack but for the front stabs being down. Conversly, with the rear stabs down there was nowhere for that added weight to go but through the "A" frame. I'd imagine that most any TT will do that to a degree with the stabs down. So, I wonder.., the other TT's you checked, did they have the stabs down too? Not a fair comparison if not. Point is, you would not see this happening but for the stabs being down as the weight would be born only between the axles and the jack otherwise. With the jacks down you might see flex on the tongue as the leverage point shifts from front of TT (weight born on front stabs) to the rear of TT with the weight being born on the rear stabs. That is a lot of weight shift if you think about it.
I can say that I've seen my tongue move when I put my stabs down and I can say something is "flexing" as I unload the front jack when putting stabs down when I want to add "cribbing" under the front jack. My back/side yard has a slope to it and if I want to level my TT and use the stabs and not have the front jack fully extended I need to add cribbing under it.
What you witnessed I can say wouldn't be at all unusual, with the stabs down. Again, you wouldn't see it unless the stabs were down, you couldn't. It would be impossible using just the tongue jack with the stabs up.
Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know much, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.
Wills250psd wrote: Actually the weight was already on the tounge with the jack down. maybe the rear stabilizers were down giveing the rear nowhere to go and it was picking up the whole thing?
That sounds more like it
yes all stabilizers where down I didn`t notice if the front ones had weight on them
Think about it. you would not have been able to "unload" the front jack but for the front stabs being down. Conversly, with the rear stabs down there was nowhere for that added weight to go but through the "A" frame. I'd imagine that most any TT will do that to a degree with the stabs down. So, I wonder.., the other TT's you checked, did they have the stabs down too? Not a fair comparison if not. Point is, you would not see this happening but for the stabs being down as the weight would be born only between the axles and the jack otherwise. With the jacks down you might see flex on the tongue as the leverage point shifts from front of TT (weight born on front stabs) to the rear of TT with the weight being born on the rear stabs. That is a lot of weight shift if you think about it.
I can say that I've seen my tongue move when I put my stabs down and I can say something is "flexing" as I unload the front jack when putting stabs down when I want to add "cribbing" under the front jack. My back/side yard has a slope to it and if I want to level my TT and use the stabs and not have the front jack fully extended I need to add cribbing under it.
What you witnessed I can say wouldn't be at all unusual, with the stabs down. Again, you wouldn't see it unless the stabs were down, you couldn't. It would be impossible using just the tongue jack with the stabs up.
I would normally agree with you, it would have to give to a certain degree but I performed the test on a 2007 Jayco with the rear stab down and the whole trailer lifted.not only down but on pavement( the first was in a grassy field) Yes there was a degree of give in the front end but not nearly as much as the first trailer I looked at. I was lifting almost 6000 Lbs on the font end. so yes give a little . remember now before I passed judgement I verified with not one but two Jayco dealers and they both seemed to agree that the was a potential problem with the frame. Also I tested on a similar trailer and different results( very little give). I have suggested to the owners to take the trailer to a dealer to have it verified just for peace of mind and have also arranged for it to be done at the location it was purchased from. waiting to hear if there was an inspection done and will update then
I am very curious about this issue because I would really like to upgrade from what I have
Nitehawk62 wrote: ---I was looking at a 29X LTG Jayco feather light and just by chance I cranked the A-Frame front jack up and down. As i was doing this I notice that the propane tanks were leaning towards the trailer as i put weight on the jack and separated as i took weight of of the crank. the A-Frame was actually flexing as weight was applied , Now is this normal and designed like this so that when the WD hitch is used the weight is distributed or is there a problem with the Frame.---
Quote: yes all stabilizers where down I didn`t notice if the front ones had weight on them
Quote: ok so investigation is now complete. it has been confirmed by not one but two Jayco dealers and for sure the frame should not give. and me still not being satisfied,,,, I went and cranked up another Jayco (2007)29X and no give in the A_frame even lifting it off the ground,
CASE CLOSED thank you for all the input ..
All structures will flex when loaded. It might not be perceptible, but they do flex.
A trailer's tongue jack should never be raised or lowered when the trailer is resting on the stabilizers.
If you raise the jack, you are making the frame pivot about the rear stabilizers.
If you raised the jack high enough, you'd have about half the trailer's weight on the rear stabilizers and half on the jack.
The stabilizers are not designed for that much load. The jack is not designed for that much load.
And, the frame is not designed to be supported only at the rear and the jack.
Flexing is a means by which an overloaded structure can absorb energy without breaking.
It's lucky for you (or for the trailer's owner) that the frame did flex when you overloaded it.
The flexing you observed when you overloaded the frame was not an indication of a faulty design or maunfacture.
Ron Gratz wrote: A trailer's tongue jack should never be raised or lowered when the trailer is resting on the stabilizers.
I agree. Trailer frames aren't meant to do that. As far as the flexing that you saw - I don't know if that is acceptable or not. But I would say it isn't a good idea to run around doing this test on other trailers that you do not own.
I agree. If I was a city guy with no knowledge, except towing a trailer around the block for a couple of years I would also pass this up. I don't think towing a 30 ft TT for a couple of years gives enough experience to understand frames or much else. I grew up in the country. I take my certified welder along when I look at equipment. I have looked at heavy duty farm equipment. When I see cracked frames or weak frames I discount them. I discounted a trailer frame by over $5,000. I pointed out to the seller the problem and I was just buying for parts only. The seller understood and knew the problem and took my offer. My certified welder corrected the problem for less than $1,000 and I am still using that farm equipment with NO problems for over 6 years. The frame of that equipment is now stronger than when it was sold new.
If you don't know what you are doing you should pass it up. However, if you know equipment you can really make some good bargains on some good equipment on other peoples lack of knowledge.
Nighthawk62 wrote: I verified with not one but two Jayco dealers and they both seemed to agree that the was a potential problem with the frame.
All due respect to you but were you talking to the sales dept when you verified this? I would rather speak to someone at Jayco (IN) in their tech dept. I would even be suspect with all due respect to the guys in the service dept, not at Jayco but at the Jayco dealer. Would depend on the tech and his experience.
The dealers you spoke with could have thought a sale was on the way.
Nighthawk62 wrote: I verified with not one but two Jayco dealers and they both seemed to agree that the was a potential problem with the frame.
All due respect to you but were you talking to the sales dept when you verified this? I would rather speak to someone at Jayco (IN) in their tech dept. I would even be suspect with all due respect to the guys in the service dept, not at Jayco but at the Jayco dealer. Would depend on the tech and his experience.
The dealers you spoke with could have thought a sale was on the way.
OK all of you are right on valid points so will address everyone if i can. the first trailer was already set up with stress on the jack looking at it from the side it did not look right to me so i cranked the jack up, it was when I took the weight of the jack that we noticed the movement.
As for a guy who has been pulling a trailer of one kind or another for the last 25 yrs or so, I still do not know enough to determine the stress load of certain metal and there fore would not mess around with equipment that i am not ready to pay for . So one of the dealers I went to talk to did it to prove a point to me ( I actually expected the stabilizers to bend at the back , strangely they did not)
I did not speak to a sales man but being a Saturday I spoke to the mechanic in the garage. this dealer also happens to be an inspection station for the province if that means anything these days.
so I guess I will wait to see if the owners do take the trailer in for an inspection and i will report back if they do ,I know that if they take to where they bought it the manager will call me to let me know the results. Got to know him over the last few month and they were going to finance this purchase for me
At the same time I will most liklye send the letter I am writing to Jayco to see if they will be able to clarify this,
Ron I suspect that if there is a problem with the frame it is most likely do to the owners trying to level the trailer using the tongue jack I see so many people trying to do this,
so until i get an answer from Jayco or the inspection centre I will keep reading input with great interest.
I would not want to see much flex.Trailer frames do flex a bit.However not the qualty of a semi trailer.Steel fabricator is what I do for a living 30 plus years.Friend had his older Coachman A frame bend and
I put on a new one on, as well as beefed up the frame.I'am sure it was
overloaded once in a while but the A frame was built on the light side.
Think I ould run away as well.Its a big job and most place will not want to do it,
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