tropical36 wrote: OK, here's the deal....I don't have a 4000 lb difference between the two.
My weight averages fully loaded, passengers and all around 18,500 lbs.
GVWR is 19,500 lbs. and probably where I confused you, so sorry about that.
The Jeep is about 4500 lbs., so that's a 23,000 lb total.
GCWR is 21,000 lbs. Does this make sense or am I still missing something here.
you report that your GVWR is 19.5 and the GCWR is 21. the hitch rating can usually be inferred by the difference in the GCWR and GVWR. a Class II hitch typically has a weight rating of 3500-lbs, a Class III hitch at 5000-lbs and a Class IV hitch at 10,000-lbs. unless you've posted an incorrect number this indicates to me that your hitch cannot support the weight of your jeep, you're done before you start.
the maximum amount of weight you can safely tow will be the *lesser* of the following:
- the GCWR minus the *actual* weight of the MH as it is configured for travel
- the weight rating of your hitch
- the weight rating of your tow bar
It doesn't always work that way and these hitches are pretty standard on a lot of gas coaches. The hitch itself is rated 500/5000 lbs.
"We are often so caught up in our destination that we forget to appreciate the journey."
1998 36ft. National Tropi-Cal Model 6350 on a 1997 Chevy P32
Chassis_7.4 Vortec Engine_4L80E Tranny_slide_tag axle.
hmknightnc wrote: That clear it up. Your only going to be about 10% over GCWR so I'd do it for whatever that is worth. I would use suppliment brakes on the jeep though since the total wieght is over the GVWR (the previous brake, suspension discussion). Also I'd make sure I had an engine oil cooler and aux tranny cooler and down the road I'd go.
You've put this thing in a different perspective when you talk percentages rather than some weight that one might view as trying to carry on their shoulders and I truly believe that many out there are overloaded in some way or the other and maybe more so, than not. Just saying that you can find whole discussions on coaches that are without any CC at all, let alone having anything left for pulling a toad.
I do have a tranny cooler, but not so sure about an engine oil cooler and would think that as long as you can keep your water temp normal, you'd be OK with that end of it. Having said that, I will be looking for such an animal tomorrow.
Tried sending you a pm for some other things, but couldn't with your restrictions, so....
* This post was
edited 04/18/12 09:33pm by tropical36 *
tropical36 wrote: OK, here's the deal....I don't have a 4000 lb difference between the two.
My weight averages fully loaded, passengers and all around 18,500 lbs.
GVWR is 19,500 lbs. and probably where I confused you, so sorry about that.
The Jeep is about 4500 lbs., so that's a 23,000 lb total.
GCWR is 21,000 lbs. Does this make sense or am I still missing something here.
you report that your GVWR is 19.5 and the GCWR is 21. the hitch rating can usually be inferred by the difference in the GCWR and GVWR. a Class II hitch typically has a weight rating of 3500-lbs, a Class III hitch at 5000-lbs and a Class IV hitch at 10,000-lbs. unless you've posted an incorrect number this indicates to me that your hitch cannot support the weight of your jeep, you're done before you start.
the maximum amount of weight you can safely tow will be the *lesser* of the following:
- the GCWR minus the *actual* weight of the MH as it is configured for travel
- the weight rating of your hitch
- the weight rating of your tow bar
It doesn't always work that way and these hitches are pretty standard on a lot of gas coaches. The hitch itself is rated 500/5000 lbs.
which is why i wrote 'typically'. even assuming the OPs hitch is a Class III that can handle 4400-lbs by his own numbers he is 2K overweight. that's just plain reckless disregard for his safety as well as anyone sharing the road with him. an overweight MH will handle, steer and brake differently. expect pre-mature wear and failure on suspension, brakes, etc. this is an accident waiting to happen.
73,
rich, n9dko www.bananaboatbytes.com
I know a guy who's addicted to brake fulid. He says he can stop anytime.
_________________________________
2000 Itasca Suncruiser 35U
'46 Willys CJ2A
'03 Jeep Wrangler TJ
'10 Jeep Liberty KK
When I was towing the fifth wheel, I stopped and weighed the rig, finally, on the final trip back to Montana.
It was UNDER GAWR on all axles
It was UNDER GVWR truck and trailer
But the gross combined weight was 21,180 lbs.
The truck GCWR, according to the Owners Manual, is 18,000 lbs.
Yep, it was 3,180 lbs OVER GCWR!
The truck didn't break, the trailer didn't break, the hitch didn't break, there were no accidents/incidents or occurrences, nobody was injured or died, there were no tire failures, no mayhem on the highway...
To put it simply, NOTHING HAPPENED!
The trip originated in Grass Valley, CA, went down to Hanford, CA, then to Billings, MT, via Donner Pass, Monida Pass, Bozeman Pass, and Homestake Pass.
CM1, USN (RET)
2002 Fleetwood Southwind 32V, Ford V10
Toad: 2006 Jeep Rubicon LJ
Other toad: '06 PT Cruiser, Kar Kaddy dolly
Toy: 1977 Dodge W100 CC SWB, 3/4 ton axles & springs
"When seconds count, help is only minutes away!"
mowermech wrote: When I was towing the fifth wheel, I stopped and weighed the rig, finally, on the final trip back to Montana.
It was UNDER GAWR on all axles
It was UNDER GVWR truck and trailer
But the gross combined weight was 21,180 lbs.
The truck GCWR, according to the Owners Manual, is 18,000 lbs.
Yep, it was 3,180 lbs OVER GCWR!
The truck didn't break, the trailer didn't break, the hitch didn't break, there were no accidents/incidents or occurrences, nobody was injured or died, there were no tire failures, no mayhem on the highway...
To put it simply, NOTHING HAPPENED!
The trip originated in Grass Valley, CA, went down to Hanford, CA, then to Billings, MT, via Donner Pass, Monida Pass, Bozeman Pass, and Homestake Pass.
Sounds like you did a little climbing and downhill braking along the way at that.
I think this is almost the rule or at least in many cases, except that not many like yourself will post at all or even subscribe to any forums..... and especially in your case, with a real world experience.
I am a safety first, type person which is one reason I never drive my Motel at speed limit, even without a toad. When it comes to this sort of thing, I like looking at the engineering of the whole thing and if there's any manufacture out there who hasn't built in more than a 10% factor, then it must have came from the back country of China. I don't assume this though, and look at the whole rig for any possible weak points. Finally, I don't think they have real structural engineers working for most of these coach builders that actually do the math and just strike a number that keeps them safe from any liability.
FWIW, GCWR is about more than just stopping. It's about transmission torque limits, rear end heat dissipation, shock and spring capacities (not an issue with a toad FROG), engine horsepower, builder CYA and etc. As long as I had aux brakes on the toad, and had them set so they activated most of the times I was stopping (not just in panic situations), I would be more worried about the transmission, engine, etc. issues, all of which can be ameliorated by more frequent maintenance, judicious choice of lubricants, and restrained driving habits.
My additional 2 cents, YMMV
John & Diane
1996 Beaver Monterey 3403
2002 Ford Windstar toad
Offline
