I agree on the fit & finish on the Keystone. Have not had any issues with their customer service. Hartland seems to be a Quality product but the Raptors I looked at seemed to be made a lot better than our Sprinter. When my TV comes in we will be crawling over both of them from floor to roof.
2012 Ford F-450 CCDRW 6.7L
2013 Heartland Cyclone 300C
THOR is the parent company of Keystone, Heartland, Dutchman, Airstream and others. Some of the same shops handle or look after the same thing for all (ie: full body paint). Buying a TH or any other RV is certainly a personal preference. I looked at Cyclone, Voltage, Raptor, Recon and finally bought a Fuzion 405 TEIII, the Cyclone was a close second - the others in my opinion were not of the same quality,lacking in fit and finish at least the ones I looked at, but again it all comes down to personal preference. Have not had any issues with Fuzion customer service. Take your time when looking and check out every nook and cranny in and out. There is some good information on the Internet if you Google it as to what to look for.
I guess I got lucky and got a good Raptor. As far as Heartland being head over heals above Keystone, that would be a bit of a stretch.
The best built toyhauler is not a toyhauler at all, look at Living quarter horse trailers. As the others have mentioned, you get what you pay for, and anything under 6 figures are all suceptable to quality control issues. Paying for top craftsmen, engineers with PE stamps costs money, real money.
As far as going with whats mainstream, the biggest thing is finding a dealer that has a good relationship with the MFG, which ever one that would be. You could have the best built Heartland in the world, but if the dealer sucks, your on the hook for finding out where to get it fixed. Worse than that if the dealer jackslaps the repair, Heartlant won't pay to fix it again properly, period. If you have the poorest built Keystone product and the dealer gets everything taken care of in a timely manner, which would you rather have?
In the end, I think alot of people think the mass produced RV's should be trouble free for 15 years. That is a pretty high expectation. Many here on the board fix a ton of stuff there selves and skip the headaches of dealing worrying about how bad you got screwed and go back to camping and enjoying the outdoors.
Good luck with whatever brand you decide on.
Ryan
2008 Ford F350 CC LWB Dually
2011 Raptor 4014LEV
2006 H-D FLHX
2010 Honda Rancher 420ES
Our WW has been great and seems better built then my buddys Attitude or megalite. IMO they are built cheap and you will always find something to do to them.
Take a good look at the Desert Fox line from Northwood, and yes I know that they stopped making their 2, 5th wheel model this year, a 30' and 38', but that would not stop me from buying one, if that is what I wanted.
They make their own frames, if in doubt, take a tour thru the factory and that will make your decision for you. Do your home work before, it will save headaches later.
Don
2010 F-350,6.4PSD, 6spd man trans,CC,SWB,SRW, Caravan camper shell,50 gal bed tank,17,000lb Husky WD hitch,Northwoods 2008 28KS Desert Fox Toy Hauler,2005 Honda 500 Rubicon ATV w/rumble seat,1 Aussie waiting,watching and ridin shotgun on the whole outfit.
IMO, all TH are different, even the same model same year.
They are not built like cars.
Even the same model/brand/size can and will be different, sometimes very different.To say one Brand is much better than another brand, blanket statement is not always true at all. All brands have there Monday morning build problems. And all brands have there perfect examples.Some more than others, maybe. But I am a firm believer in Murphy's law. And if I let it happen,I will get the worst possible example of a TH from a manufacturer.
Its kind of like new homes in a subdivision. All built by the same builder, but different construction workers/laborers. Even the same model home right next to another identical model can be very different in the quality of the build.
I have rented over 30 TH thru the years. Many times the same model but a different unit. They can be total opposites in quality of construction.
Granted, a specific model will use similar/exact appliances furnishings and construction methods maybe, depending on the mechanic/installer doing that specific trailer. But a lot has to do with how each specific part is hung or installed. And the materials are not always the same. Many times I've seen even in the same model year same model a change upgrade to address a problem area or upgrade an area. Or a bathroom wall hung different, with different trim, and one with extra trim to hide where the staples went thru the wall, because the new or old wall board was a different thickness. Same model, same year, same brand. Very different trailers...
As for plumbing... well, same model, same year, same brand, have seen some TH leak tight. The water pump would never cycle ever. All night with out a peep from the pump. Other TH's, every 1/2h-15min the pump would cycle to maintain pressure. Lots of plumbing, and all plumbers are not created equal.
Same goes for the electrical between the same models of TH. I've seen some done so neat it could be in NASA, others, well lets just say a bowl of spaghetti was neater and more organized.
As for the frame issues, check each out individually. Just because it is the same model does not mean it has the exact same frame in the same model Th.
After the frame fiasco Zieman/Lippert had, I believe you'd be hard pressed to find a inferior frame in a new toy hauler now a days. Lippert Components, leading supplier to the RV industry, took notice and acquired Zieman frames in 2004.
IMO you should look at each trailer as being different.Even the same model. Some slightly, some a lot.
Run everything. Open and close everything. Look in all compartments. Spend some time in the TH. Get up on the roof, check it out. Crawl under it, check it out. Its either now, or be ready for possible after the first outing, extended warranty work that might not be up to par with another identical unit from the factory...
Go over each one with a fine tooth comb and Check each one out completely. Thats the best way to insure you get a good quality unit.
Our Road Warrior 30C has one. It has a wall with a sliding glass patio type door separating the garage from the living quarters. When the garage is empty, a bed and a bed/dinette drop down from the ceiling for extra living space. Then you can leave the ramp down and a screen drops down to turn the garage into a bedroom or a screenporch.
We looked at the Raptors, Cyclones, and KZ options out there. We liked a lot of them, but ended up getting our new 2012 Voltage which we absolutely fell in love with!! It's all in what floorplan and how much you are willing to pay for the best quality that matches your family needs. Good luck!!
Aaron
Mindy
Nathaniel (5 yrs old)
Cadence (3 yrs old)
2005 F550 old puller (still used on the farm)
2010 Dodge 3500 (new puller)
2012 Voltage 3600 Epic
taken wrote: Our Road Warrior 30C has one. It has a wall with a sliding glass patio type door separating the garage from the living quarters. When the garage is empty, a bed and a bed/dinette drop down from the ceiling for extra living space. Then you can leave the ramp down and a screen drops down to turn the garage into a bedroom or a screenporch.
Thank you that is a start - I'll start checking them out!
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