Lantley wrote: While I am not in the market right now sounds like I need to take a hard look at the Ram. My prior impression has been Dodge is not rugged enough for use as a work truck. The Ford is still the toughest of the bunch in terms of abuse and durability. Too bad they still have reliability and warranty issues I like my Chevy but it is not a rugged as the Ford.
I consider Dodge even more fragile, maybe I'm wrong about that!
Two things, first what do most hot shoters drive? Second how many GM or Ford trucks out there with over 500,000 miles on them still working vs Dodges?
When I refer to rugged durability I don't mean longevity or high mileage. I'm in the construction business and my trucks have to do whatever it takes to get the job done. They suffer from selective abuse. They are always loaded down with tools. Doors may be opened and closed constantly. Multiple stops. Chained up and pulling something that it shouldn't etc. Jumping curbs etc. This does not go on everyday, but it goes on. I am very satisfied with my Chevy but I don't think it is as rugged as the Ford. Dodge has come on quite a bit, and they are the premier choice of hot shotters. But they are not the premier choice of guys in the construction business or by guys that drive a lot,but driving/hauling is not their main objective.
Are truck are on the road at all hours in all conditions . But our work doesn't begin until the truck is parked. Hot shotters on the other hand rack up a lot of highway miles but the trucks are generally not abused the way our trucks are.
07'Duramax dually,12'Open Range 399BHS
Hawkshead TPMS,Hensley BD3,Killerbee exhaust brake
Blue Ox Bedsaver,air bags w/compressor
Arvika pin box bike rack,Bak Flip tonneau cover
5500 Onan LP,EMS-HW-50
14'Porta Bote w/8.0 Nissan
Vu Cube 2000,Splendide 2000S
donn0128 wrote: Lots of mis information about Dodge here so far. But since you did not ask about Dodge I will not comment on those false stories. Ford and GM both use DEF injection to aid in reducing emissions. It is an added cost. And reliability so far is still an unproven item. Drive them both and decide which one YOU actually preferr. That is the only way you will know which one you want.
donn
I must say that in spite of published data that proves that DEF injection actually lowers overall operating costs, you are a persistent holdout for the old technology.
Dodge consistently falls 2 or 3 MPG short on the many different shootouts performed by the media types. The lack of DEF emissions controls contributes a large part of that MPG difference. Much more frequent hot side EGR activity not only lowers fuel mileage, it also creates substantial quantities of soot. This soot is deposited in the DPF where it eventually has to be burned off using additional diesel fuel in the process. These DPF events occur at far more frequent intervals than the DEF equipped GM or Ford.
DEF technology is hardly new stuff. It has been around for many years. It has proven to be effective and reliable while allowing finer tuning for better fuel economy. The engineers I spoke with at the auto show admitted that the Dodge needed some emissions and fuel economy help...and DEF was the likely solution. I hope they go that route...it will put a Dodge in my driveway...
Regards
Ok where EXACTLY, did I misrepresent Ford or GM in my comments you quoted?
DEF IS an added cost.
Based on many of the comments it appears that the technology in both Ford and GM is/has not proven to be as reliable as predicted.
About the fallacy of 2-3 MPG improvements? I just don't see that either. Most people that have so far reported the real world MPG numbers are reporting almost identical numbers to those that I have posted numerous times.
Go hug your Ford and when you have to fork over 10 grand to fix a system Ford refuses to warrant, or God forbid you accidentally dump your precious DEF in the fuel tank and suck a motor don't come back here crying about it.
Facts is facts. I never said the Dodge system is superior, I have said there is no added DEF system that must be maintained or repaired out of warranty. At least with my Dodge the emission systems could fall off fairly easily and the truck will still merrily be going down the road. Can't say the same for Ford or GM.
BTW tell us how superior your fuel mileage is both towing and non towing. And I mean hand calculated not the lie o meter numbers.
Donn, Donn, Donn...temper...temper...chill out
First, I did not say you misrepresented anything...but the facts prove that the cost of the DEF product is more than offset by the increased fuel economy and the resulting real dollar savings at the pump. DEF product cost is less than .2 cents per mile. Using current pricing for diesel, the cost savings per mile on the 2 mpg better economy calculates to over 3 cents per mile.
A good example of how DEF emissions will help performance and fuel economy can be found rather close to your heart. Just look at how close the DEF equipped Dodge Long Hauler performed over the same course as the other three ran earlier this model year. Detuned by 60 horsepower and somewhere around 50 lb ft of torque, it had nearly identical performance to the 3500 Dually Dodge.
100,000 miles, the emissions warranty coverage for all engines, will save $3000 in fuel costs. I will say that the maintenance on the DEF system is likely to cost significantly less than that amount.
The magazines and the internet rags have all done testing of the three trucks. They consistently show 10% less fuel economy with the Dodge. Owners of 2011 and 2012 GM and Ford trucks do report better fuel economy numbers than Dodge owners. Also, the fuel computer on the Ford is very accurate. I have been comparing mine for almost 50,000 miles now. It is always within a 1/2 gallon or so from actual fill up quantity...so much for the lie-o-meter comment
In your little tantrum, you mentioned the Ford fuel system and a $10,000 bill...and told me to go hug my Ford. I know you can read so you certainly are aware of my huge fight with Ford over their warranty policy and the general mistreatment of their loyal customers. I do not shill for Ford...in fact. a DEF equipped Dodge will be in my driveway if they are smart enough to build it...I hope it is built good enough so the exhaust parts do not fall off...
Regards
Ricatic
Debbie and Savannah the Wonderdachsund
2009 Big Horn 3055RL
2006 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 Dually LTX with the Gold Standard LBZ Engine and Allison Transmission
2011 F350 Lariat SRW CC SB 4WD 6.7 Diesel POS Gone Bye Bye
Sill refusing to tell us how great your fuel economy is I see. Hummm makes me wonder. BTW I have seen 11.5 towing 13,500 pounds of fiver to the coast. Whats your real numbers?
Donn,Lorri,Max (The Rescued Lab)
Resident Know It All
donn0128 wrote: Sill refusing to tell us how great your fuel economy is I see. Hummm makes me wonder. BTW I have seen 11.5 towing 13,500 pounds of fiver to the coast. Whats your real numbers?
hummm...I am beginning to wonder about your ability to comprehend what you read...I have never hid from my real numbers. They have been posted here since the first trip with the truck almost two years ago.
Here is my recent post from the currently running Gas mileage on a F250 thread:
ricatic
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The 6.7 Ford fuel mileage is very dependent on driving speeds. Under ideal conditions I have seen 21.5 mpg on the freeway at 65 mph. Upping the speed causes an immediate drop in mileage.
Under normal driving conditions,not towing, I get 17 to 18 city and 19 t0 20 highway. Towing, I see 11 to 13 pulling 13000 pounds of Big Horn. Speed is again a big factor in the numbers.
Can I have some of that before this one gets locked up.
I swear, you'd think we were talking about people's mamas on here,
...and I am tring to understand the problem...I am agreeing with Donn about the quality and performance of the Dodge...just do not like the non-DEF emissions...TEHO
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