I'm with ya Ricatic. I had NUMEROUS problems with my 6.7 Cummins that probably wouldn't have been problem's if it had a DEF system. Hence my 2012 Hemi 2500 that replaced it.
Like I said before, If you live in a area where emissions stuff falling off is not a problem...Go Dodge.
But save everything that falls off. You will need it back to stock at trade in time, and laws change. Just because a area doesn't inspect/test emissions now doesn't mean it will stay that way.
Huntindog
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ricatic wrote: For 35 years, my driveway has never had any other vehicle but a Ford parked in it. Right now there is a 2002 F150 SuperCrew, a 2011 F150 EcoBoost SuperCrew and my 2011 F350 6.7 SuperDuty sitting there. Is there a bit of Ford loyalty showing here? After my 6 week battle with Ford over HPFP warranty denial and the resulting $10,030 repair, another brand will be residing there soon.Cross brand loyalty and customer appreciation off the list for reasons to buy a Ford.
Like the dog said, check out the brands. For me, GM's smaller crew cab is a deal breaker. After having the room and comfort that I have enjoyed to date, I just do not want to be cramped...and, yes, as I look to the future, I have driven the GM. It appears the new large cab GM's are not arriving until 2014.
The Dodge is a sweet truck. Lot's of room and a deluxe interior. I never thought I would ever speak so nicely about the Dodge...but... no DEF emissions control is a deal breaker. The Dodge cab/chassis has DEF now. Hopefully, the pickups will get this important performance feature in 2013. If it does, a new Dodge 3500 Dually Laramie Limited will take a spot in my driveway...
Shame on Ford
Regards
Rick,
I thought you reported you where a ex GM man all your life....Hummm! In your wait for Fiat to install a DEF system on the RAM to improve fuel economy; I wouldn't be too surprised if the CP4 doesn't make it way on the Cummins as well for the same reason.
To the OP,
There's been alot of various comments here about their opinions, but ask yourself where do you want to spend your money? A foreign company (Dodge=Fiat), GM (GM = Tax $$$) or Ford (US company that took no Tax $$$)
All these trucks will do a fantastic job of pulling your RV, but you'll have to choose the one that let's you sleep good at night about your purchase.
They all have their good and bad. My 2010 Dodge was replaced the second time it was towed from my driveway. My 2011 GMC had the DEF tank replaced the first week and an oil leak at the pan fixed at 10k mi. I drove a 07 Ford 6.ohno not one of those for nearly 100k with less problems than the Dodge or the GMC. I will say though that this GMC makes me smile the most when driving it.
ricatic wrote: For 35 years, my driveway has never had any other vehicle but a Ford parked in it. Right now there is a 2002 F150 SuperCrew, a 2011 F150 EcoBoost SuperCrew and my 2011 F350 6.7 SuperDuty sitting there. Is there a bit of Ford loyalty showing here? After my 6 week battle with Ford over HPFP warranty denial and the resulting $10,030 repair, another brand will be residing there soon.Cross brand loyalty and customer appreciation off the list for reasons to buy a Ford.
Like the dog said, check out the brands. For me, GM's smaller crew cab is a deal breaker. After having the room and comfort that I have enjoyed to date, I just do not want to be cramped...and, yes, as I look to the future, I have driven the GM. It appears the new large cab GM's are not arriving until 2014.
The Dodge is a sweet truck. Lot's of room and a deluxe interior. I never thought I would ever speak so nicely about the Dodge...but... no DEF emissions control is a deal breaker. The Dodge cab/chassis has DEF now. Hopefully, the pickups will get this important performance feature in 2013. If it does, a new Dodge 3500 Dually Laramie Limited will take a spot in my driveway...
Shame on Ford
Regards
Rick,
I thought you reported you where a ex GM man all your life....Hummm! In your wait for Fiat to install a DEF system on the RAM to improve fuel economy; I wouldn't be too surprised if the CP4 doesn't make it way on the Cummins as well for the same reason.
To the OP,
There's been alot of various comments here about their opinions, but ask yourself where do you want to spend your money? A foreign company (Dodge=Fiat), GM (GM = Tax $$$) or Ford (US company that took no Tax $$$)
All these trucks will do a fantastic job of pulling your RV, but you'll have to choose the one that let's you sleep good at night about your purchase.
Good Luck...
I sleep very well knowing that I got the most value and warranty for my hard earned dollars. No I am not a fan of bailouts for ANY buisiness, but when it comes time to spend 60K, I won't let that influence my decision. I mean I already invested in GM with my tax dollars, so why would I turn my back on the best product that I have already paid into? Of course you helped pay for my truck too...I appreciate it, and it's not my problem if you don't want to drive a superior truck on those grounds alone...Dodge also took money. So that leaves you with one choice in the HD truck market. That's no choice at all....But it may well be a reason that Ford feels they can mistreat their customers,,,and people keep on buying...Powerful kool aid for sure.
ricitac, I had a GMC for a little over 100,000 miles and in the end went with a Dodge Ram Diesel Crewcab, 342 rear end and six-speed manual. If, over 100,000 miles the fuel savings are $3,000, than I am still about $7,000 ahead on the cost factor. Yes, $10,000 was the difference between the Dodge I bought and the best price I could get for a GMC/Chevy at our home town dealer. I know it's not the ideal towing machine with that 3.42, but it works very well for us and our new FW. Have pulled it three times, not camping, trying to get the Schwintek slide fixed, and the truck pulls our FW just fine even in sixth gear.
ricatic wrote: For 35 years, my driveway has never had any other vehicle but a Ford parked in it. Right now there is a 2002 F150 SuperCrew, a 2011 F150 EcoBoost SuperCrew and my 2011 F350 6.7 SuperDuty sitting there. Is there a bit of Ford loyalty showing here? After my 6 week battle with Ford over HPFP warranty denial and the resulting $10,030 repair, another brand will be residing there soon.Cross brand loyalty and customer appreciation off the list for reasons to buy a Ford.
Like the dog said, check out the brands. For me, GM's smaller crew cab is a deal breaker. After having the room and comfort that I have enjoyed to date, I just do not want to be cramped...and, yes, as I look to the future, I have driven the GM. It appears the new large cab GM's are not arriving until 2014.
The Dodge is a sweet truck. Lot's of room and a deluxe interior. I never thought I would ever speak so nicely about the Dodge...but... no DEF emissions control is a deal breaker. The Dodge cab/chassis has DEF now. Hopefully, the pickups will get this important performance feature in 2013. If it does, a new Dodge 3500 Dually Laramie Limited will take a spot in my driveway...
Shame on Ford
Regards
Rick,
I thought you reported you where a ex GM man all your life....Hummm! In your wait for Fiat to install a DEF system on the RAM to improve fuel economy; I wouldn't be too surprised if the CP4 doesn't make it way on the Cummins as well for the same reason.
To the OP,
There's been alot of various comments here about their opinions, but ask yourself where do you want to spend your money? A foreign company (Dodge=Fiat), GM (GM = Tax $$$) or Ford (US company that took no Tax $$$)
All these trucks will do a fantastic job of pulling your RV, but you'll have to choose the one that let's you sleep good at night about your purchase.
Good Luck...
I sleep very well knowing that I got the most value and warranty for my hard earned dollars. No I am not a fan of bailouts for ANY buisiness, but when it comes time to spend 60K, I won't let that influence my decision. I mean I already invested in GM with my tax dollars, so why would I turn my back on the best product that I have already paid into? Of course you helped pay for my truck too...I appreciate it, and it's not my problem if you don't want to drive a superior truck on those grounds alone...Dodge also took money. So that leaves you with one choice in the HD truck market. That's no choice at all....But it may well be a reason that Ford feels they can mistreat their customers,,,and people keep on buying...Powerful kool aid for sure.
Huntindog,
Your starting to sound very defensive...
Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge. Not going to add to the flame war as this thread is getting a bit far from what the OP had asked.
However in regards to the DEF vs EGR debate, I will weigh in. DEF is far superior than a EGR equipped truck. Why do you think trucking companies went nuts ordering new trucks in '06 BEFORE the '07 EGR emission trucks went into effect?? Talk w/ a semi truck dealer and he'll tell you if your looking for a used semi, avoid model years '07-'10 simply due to the emissions and EGR components. Most of the trucks in our division are EGR motors and they are in the shop more than on the road (they do NOT have the DPF just EGR's) motors are Cummins ISM's. Currently Cummins, Detroit, Mack, Volvo all use DEF fluid. Navistar or International still employs EGR valves and they by far are the worst performing motors used in semis. In fact IH tried suing the other engine mfrs stating that their claims to meet emissions were false. Courts ruled AGAINST IH and it turns out IH hasn't a engine to meet the '14 emissions whereas the others are meeting it NOW. So what am I saying? Yes DEF is another added cost to diesel ownership. However, the results in better mpg's, less problems and better performance tell me that despite the cost, it's the way to go.
As for Ford and their warranty issues, am not aware or live under a rock as I'm not sure what's up with it. Cannot be due to Navistar. Yes GM is Gov't owned and funded by the US taxpayers and the D-max (Isuzu)/ Ally is a great running combo. But they too have their fair share of problems. Seems that no matter what brand of truck, the vast majority run great w/o a big stink. Those w/ "X" brand that have issues make them out to be the biggest pieces of metal on the road far out shouting those w/o problems.
Getting a new Freightliner at work that has a Detroit engine, Eaton trans. Truck is made in Mexico. Aren't all Dodges made there too? Because it's a Freightshaker, does that mean it's the biggest piece of crud to tow trailers compared to a Pete or KW? Time will tell. Everything has their day. Just when it happens to you or me, then, we start to cuss.
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