DSteiner51 wrote: I personally would rather tow a 5th wheel that inherently is stable that slightly overloads a 1/2 ton then a travel trailer that needs bandaids such as WDH and/or anti sway at 80% of rated Gross Weights. I think relying on bandaids is dumb, dumb, dumb.
OK, I`ll bite. what do you meen "bandaid"? I think that putting a hitch in the bed of a truck to tow a trailer is a bandaid and is dumb, dumb, dumb!
A top heavy load like a fifth wheel would actually be less stable!
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DSteiner51 wrote: I personally would rather tow a 5th wheel that inherently is stable that slightly overloads a 1/2 ton then a travel trailer that needs bandaids such as WDH and/or anti sway at 80% of rated Gross Weights. I think relying on bandaids is dumb, dumb, dumb.
OK, I`ll bite. what do you meen "bandaid"? I think that putting a hitch in the bed of a truck to tow a trailer is a bandaid and is dumb, dumb, dumb!
A top heavy load like a fifth wheel would actually be less stable!
Sorry, I wasn't expecting anyone to bite anything. I just stated an opinion based on 50+ years experience towing both semi trailers, gooseneck, and drawbar. There are hundreds of thousands of trailers being safely pulled with drawbar hitches without WDH or sway bars and possibly millions of semi's and other 5th wheels/goosenecks without WDH or sway bars and they are stable. To have to rely on WDH or sway bars is an indication something may be wrong so bandaids are used instead of fixing the problem.
Quote: A top heavy load like a fifth wheel would actually be less stable!
To make a dumb statement like this is an indication that one has no idea.
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DSteiner51 wrote: I personally would rather tow a 5th wheel that inherently is stable that slightly overloads a 1/2 ton then a travel trailer that needs bandaids such as WDH and/or anti sway at 80% of rated Gross Weights. I think relying on bandaids is dumb, dumb, dumb.
OK, I`ll bite. what do you meen "bandaid"? I think that putting a hitch in the bed of a truck to tow a trailer is a bandaid and is dumb, dumb, dumb!
A top heavy load like a fifth wheel would actually be less stable!
Sorry, I wasn't expecting anyone to bite anything. I just stated an opinion based on 50+ years experience towing both semi trailers, gooseneck, and drawbar. There are hundreds of thousands of trailers being safely pulled with drawbar hitches without WDH or sway bars and possibly millions of semi's and other 5th wheels/goosenecks without WDH or sway bars and they are stable. To have to rely on WDH or sway bars is an indication something may be wrong so bandaids are used instead of fixing the problem.
Quote: A top heavy load like a fifth wheel would actually be less stable!
To make a dumb statement like this is an indication that one has no idea.
Anyone else notice how the 1500 Rams are pointing towards the sky, and the Ranger looks normal? My question is what kinda spring helpers does the Ranger have?
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Quote: Sorry, I wasn't expecting anyone to bite anything. I just stated an opinion based on 50+ years experience towing both semi trailers, gooseneck, and drawbar. There are hundreds of thousands of trailers being safely pulled with drawbar hitches without WDH or sway bars and possibly millions of semi's and other 5th wheels/goosenecks without WDH or sway bars and they are stable. To have to rely on WDH or sway bars is an indication something may be wrong so bandaids are used instead of fixing the problem.
Except there's one important thing you're missing...
Location of axles on a TT vs a gooseneck, reg trailer, semi, etc. (you'd think someone with "years" experience would notice this). almost ALL TT have axles that are close to or in the center of the trailer (I hope you understand what this does to the stability of a trailer...).
THIS...is the reason we need sway control & WDH.
BUT what do I know I've only been towing (a TT) for 10 years.
Quote: Sorry, I wasn't expecting anyone to bite anything. I just stated an opinion based on 50+ years experience towing both semi trailers, gooseneck, and drawbar. There are hundreds of thousands of trailers being safely pulled with drawbar hitches without WDH or sway bars and possibly millions of semi's and other 5th wheels/goosenecks without WDH or sway bars and they are stable. To have to rely on WDH or sway bars is an indication something may be wrong so bandaids are used instead of fixing the problem.
Except there's one important thing you're missing...
Location of axles on a TT vs a gooseneck, reg trailer, semi, etc. (you'd think someone with "years" experience would notice this). almost ALL TT have axles that are close to or in the center of the trailer (I hope you understand what this does to the stability of a trailer...).
THIS...is the reason we need sway control & WDH.
BUT what do I know I've only been towing (a TT) for 10 years.
You obviously have never seen a 5th wheel or goose neck trailer. If you have, notice where the wheels are? A TT should be carrying approx 10-15% of it's weight on the tongue a spread of 5% while a 5th/gooseneck should carry 15-25% on it's pin, a spread of double the TT. Know why? On my model 5th the axle placement is almost identical to the TT model.
Semi trailers are different. Sure one could put tandems axles on a 1/2 ton or any other pickup and move the trailer axles back.... at YOUR expense. Pickups pulling 5th wheels/goosenecks are more stable thus need no bandaids.
Fordlover wrote: Anyone else notice how the 1500 Rams are pointing towards the sky, and the Ranger looks normal? My question is what kinda spring helpers does the Ranger have?
Timbrens. In my opinion the Timbrens made for the Ranger are too heavy.(1000lb) Debating whether I wanted to again try air shocks or airbags I decided to try Timbrens but the overload was minimal so I took a Saw Zall and cut two sides away on each Timbren to drastically reduce the load carrying capacity and get the same effect as airbags/shocks at low air pressure. The rubber is approx as thick as standard card stock paper on each side. Perfect! No help when empty but maybe a 200lb? help when loaded. No maintenance and yet slight increase in lift to keep the truck where I wanted it. Too many feed or fertilizer bags still make it squat to let me know when it gets heavy as we have no truck scales on the farm and loading ahead of the axle or behind makes a big difference as to the ability to carry a load.
Go have another look at where the center of gravity is of a 5er and compare it to a TT. Most 5er's have a CofG ~5-6ft in front of the (trailer) axles. Not the case with a TT. This is part of the reason a 5er & gooseneck are (allegedly) more stable while towing (ie heavier tongue weight). But you probably didn't know that.
Oh yeah, and I'm talking length from the pin, not from the rear TV bumper.
When I designed and built both bumper pull and gooseneck trailers I used 10-15% on bumper pulls and 15-25% on gooseneck trailers. Depending on the application the customer required determined the axle placement.
For example here is a photo of a general purpose gooseneck I built for myself. When loaded with 8 1200lb bales exceeding 15% would have heavily overloaded the truck. The CG was a the front edge of the front trailer tire.
When hauling a 4200lb tractor I could move the CG forward farther to get 20%+ and not overload.
When moving a 24ft X 32ft 2 car garage one best know where to put the CG by placing both the building on the trailer and the proper placement of the dollies to get the proper state permits. The state patrol escorts don't take too kindly to an overloaded unsafe situation. Sorry, I don't have a pict of it going down the road.
So no, I have no clue about axle placement of trailers. I'll let you teach me once you show me your qualifications on designing, building, and using trailers. Again, I stand by my first post on this thread.
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