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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

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JIMNLIN

Oklahoma

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Posted: 05/13/12 08:35am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RV.net is is a poor website to find out about "legal" weight issues. There are many LTL type haulers websites for finding out what legal weight issues are and it sure isn't what some on this web push as being legal. Weight threads on RV.net are a good sourse of jokes.

Anyhow the 1500HD is not your typical std duty 1/2 ton truck.

It comes with a 8600 GVWR/6000 lb RAWR which is a 14 bolt corporate 9.5" gear/E tires and wheels/6.0 engine with the 4L80 tranny. For all facts and purposes its the old std duty 2500 truck of years past.

The 1500HD has a 4500 lb front axle and 4500 lb front suspension.

The 1500HD has a 6000 lb rear axle and rear suspension/brakes/etc.

The 1500HD will have a rear axle payload of around 3500 lbs depending on actual scaled weights and how the owners has his truck loaded.

MMarty, the numbers your using like 7869 or 1073 pin are manufacture dry weight numbers. Im guessing the trailer after you load it will be around 9000-9500 lbs and a wet pin weight of around 1800 lbs.
The truck will carry the 5ers pin weight with no issues. The 6.0 smallblock will pull that kind of weight although nothing like the Cummins.

IMO the 8.1 GM or the V-10 Ford in a 2500 would be a better choice from a performance standpoint. Both those engines are towing beasts.
You sure don't need a dually for that size trailer.


"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides

45Ricochet

North Idaho

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Posted: 05/13/12 08:40pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'm Rick James wrote:

fla-gypsy wrote:

blt2ski wrote:

blangen wrote:

Illegal and unsafe (for you, your family, everyone else on the road) isn't a question of distance.


This is the MOST FALSE statement of ALL the false statements said! The cops DO NOT CARE about the manufactures limits. ESPECIALLY GCWR! GAWR's you might run into some issues with, actual GVWR on the door sticker, They DO NOT CARE ABOUT! They only care about how much gvw tag you have paid for. If the GVW tag is less than the door tag, you get what is on the paper work! NOT the door tag!

Marty


Are you certain about that? Are you licensed to practice law and checked the laws in all 50 states and Canada? Your statement is just as bad as his!!!


You don't have to be "licensed to practice law" to know that he's correct. In fact, the lawyers I know have NO CLUE what GCWR, GVWR, RAWR, etc., even mean. Furthermore, who said anything about Canada? Should we check the traffic laws in Pakistan?

fla-gypsy wrote:

I have no idea

That should have been your whole post right there.


Didn't you Post this link a while back Oh BTW how's the new truck?
Hey OJ was legal in court also, but he lost his civil case. Yada yada yada. He never paid a cent from his current suite


06 Ram 3500 CC LB Laramie 4x4 Dually 5.9 Cummins Smarty Jr 48RE Jacobs brake
GVWR 12,200 RAWR 9350
06 Grand Junction 34' High profile 15500 GVWR 3200 pin Mor/ryde 5500 Onan genny Dual A/C Wet bolts
27' Hallett 502, 500HP


I'm Rick James

Reno, NV, USA

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Posted: 05/14/12 06:56am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

45Ricochet wrote:

Oh BTW how's the new truck?


The new truck is great, still happy I made the switch.

Wumba

Loudon, TN

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Posted: 05/14/12 06:35am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Wow...That's not a very rational choice there! Very few 5ers are even rated to tow with a 1/2 ton let alone a 33ft. That's why they make 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. if you decide to tow, please post when your leaving and where you are headed, so I can stay off the roads!

fla-gypsy

North Florida

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Posted: 05/14/12 07:49am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

blt2ski wrote:

fla-gypsy wrote:

blt2ski wrote:

blangen wrote:

Illegal and unsafe (for you, your family, everyone else on the road) isn't a question of distance.


This is the MOST FALSE statement of ALL the false statements said! The cops DO NOT CARE about the manufactures limits. ESPECIALLY GCWR! GAWR's you might run into some issues with, actual GVWR on the door sticker, They DO NOT CARE ABOUT! They only care about how much gvw tag you have paid for. If the GVW tag is less than the door tag, you get what is on the paper work! NOT the door tag!

Marty


Are you certain about that? Are you licensed to practice law and checked the laws in all 50 states and Canada? Your statement is just as bad as his!!! I have no idea if it is legal or not but neither do you!


Check with ANY of the LEO folks that post on here, along with a few of the CVEO folks, and you will see that manufacture ratings are not legal from how they enforce the laws. Axel ratings yes in some area;s, door gvwr's are not, nor do ANY LEO's have a way of knowing your GCWR, so again, a non issue from this standpoint.

Marty


I love internet bulletin board lawyers posing as moderators!! LOL


This member is not responsible for opinions that are inaccurate due to faulty information provided by the original poster. Use them at your own discretion.

09 SuperDuty Crew Cab 6.8L/4.10(The Black Pearl)
06 Keystone Hornet 29 RLS/(The Cracker Cabana)

JN_B

Calgary, Alberta

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Posted: 05/14/12 08:00am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

RV.net is is a poor website to find out about "legal" weight issues. There are many LTL type haulers websites for finding out what legal weight issues are and it sure isn't what some on this web push as being legal. Weight threads on RV.net are a good sourse of jokes.

Anyhow the 1500HD is not your typical std duty 1/2 ton truck.

It comes with a 8600 GVWR/6000 lb RAWR which is a 14 bolt corporate 9.5" gear/E tires and wheels/6.0 engine with the 4L80 tranny. For all facts and purposes its the old std duty 2500 truck of years past.

The 1500HD has a 4500 lb front axle and 4500 lb front suspension.

The 1500HD has a 6000 lb rear axle and rear suspension/brakes/etc.

The 1500HD will have a rear axle payload of around 3500 lbs depending on actual scaled weights and how the owners has his truck loaded.

MMarty, the numbers your using like 7869 or 1073 pin are manufacture dry weight numbers. Im guessing the trailer after you load it will be around 9000-9500 lbs and a wet pin weight of around 1800 lbs.
The truck will carry the 5ers pin weight with no issues. The 6.0 smallblock will pull that kind of weight although nothing like the Cummins.

IMO the 8.1 GM or the V-10 Ford in a 2500 would be a better choice from a performance standpoint. Both those engines are towing beasts.
You sure don't need a dually for that size trailer.


+1...

If you already owned the 1500hd, it would tow your 5er safe & legally according to the manufacturers (as long as you didnt load it down), but since you are looking to purchase, get something bigger. Or keep the cummins.. Although I can see why you want to sell it, man those things are ugly..


2003 GMC Sierra 1500HD SLT
2010 K-Z Spree 318BHS

blt2ski

Kirkland, Wa

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Posted: 05/14/12 08:06am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

fla-gypsy,

look up wadcutter to name one weight enforcement officer that posts on here, he does not in his ob, recognize manufactures door placard wts. Nor does a friend of mine that is a wt officer for wa st. nor does from looking up the wt officers from Or, Ca Id, Mt. They only care that you are under 20K per axel, 34K per tandem, 80K total. You can go over if you have special permits, paid for license.

I'm legal to 14K gvwr, in Wa st, plus what ever other state I travel thru with my paid for license of 14K. The door sticker does not matter. My 2000 c2500 with a paid for tag of 8K is ALL I am legal to, not the door tag of 8600.

as noted by another poster, civil being over a door sticker might get you in trouble, legal it is not an issue. I ahve no problem admitting, I HAVE been pulled over weighed etc OVER manufactures ratings, I have YET to get an overload ticket. As my paid for tag was greater than the weight I was at, I was under the 20K per axle etc wts we are ALL given! Their are also some exceptions to this, ie roads that can not handle these ratings due to damage to them.

There is nothing illegal about running down the road at 80K lbs with the OP's rig! not that I will recommend it, but there are ways of making it legal! Civil court might have issues, but those rules are rather gray, not black and white as it has to be in criminal court.

Marty


05 Chev CC D/A LS Dooley

92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
00 Chev C2500, V5700, 4L80E, 4.10, base truck, no options!
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer
3 Single axle utility trailers

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normared

The State of East Tennessee

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Posted: 05/14/12 08:49am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"Illegal and unsafe (for you, your family, everyone else on the road) isn't a question of distance."

"This is the MOST FALSE statement of ALL the false statements said! The cops DO NOT CARE about the manufactures limits. ESPECIALLY GCWR! GAWR's you might run into some issues with, actual GVWR on the door sticker, They DO NOT CARE ABOUT! They only care about how much gvw tag you have paid for. If the GVW tag is less than the door tag, you get what is on the paper work! NOT the door tag!Marty"

>>> Sorry marty, the statement is not all that false. In the worst case- that we should all be concerned with- it's not false at all really. <<<

Generally the police don't enforce RV weight limits at all, that part is true. Anybody stopped for an equipment violation, speeding, etc won't even be asked as a general rule. Campers are not a high-priority to traffic cops (effort and resources usually target commercial vehicles), and I can personally guarantee you that patrol cops could care less how much you paid for your tag.

BUT the problem becomes very involved {and supremely important} if you have a traffic crash in which someone (inlcuding you / your passengers) are injured or killed. Traffic Accident (TA) Reconstructionists - whether police officers or private TA investigators paid by lawyers - will closely examine weights and carrying capacities to find ANY contributing factors to the accident, and they will include that into their report(s). Over-loading, lack of proper braking systems, etc., may not only cause you to be personally sued, but it is very likely insurance would not cover any monetary damages awarded if your rig was in violation of ANY regulation, ordinance, or law concerning same. It's right there in the policy - if you are violating any of these, they don't have to pay.


This issue isn't about whether "the cops do not care" or if you could receive a simple traffic citation - it IS about a situation in which you find yourself the proximate cause of serious injury / death, and the various nightmares (emotional, legal, financial) that will follow you for the rest of your life.


And before you ask: a degree in criminal justice, extensive training (including certification as a traffic accident reconstructionist), and 32 years experience in law enforcement are all working against me in this opinion.


Full-timer in our Bounder with Jeep Wrangler toad


45Ricochet

North Idaho

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Posted: 05/14/12 09:57am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

They only care that you are under 20K per axel, 34K per tandem, 80K total. You can go over if you have special permits, paid for license.
There is nothing illegal about running down the road at 80K lbs with the OP's rig!


Well the OP will need some pretty stout tires on his TV, in Cali anyway



A: The California Vehicle Code (CVC) does not contain a law that
specifically limits the amount of weight a vehicle may tow based on the
towing vehicle GVWR or GCWR. There are, however, laws that limit the
amount a vehicle may tow based on other criteria.
Section 1085(d) of Title 13 California Code of Regulations prohibits
the loading of tires above the maximum load rating marked on the tire,
or if unmarked the maximum load rating as specified in the applicable
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, or in a publication furnished to
the public by the tire manufacturer. This would most likely happen in
the case of a pickup truck towing a large fifth wheel travel trailer, as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits.

Engineer9860

Eagle Scout dad

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Posted: 05/14/12 10:07am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

In the state of MO the two things that are enforced that would apply to RVs is licensed weight, and the manufacturer's posted axle capacity.

To be legal, you need to have a license plate on your tow vehicle that exceeds your gross COMBINATION weight, and do not exceed the individual axle ratings.


In Memoriam: Liberty Belle


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