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 > New Montana 3402

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richfaa

Ohio

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Posted: 05/16/12 04:35pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

LostinAZ wrote:

up2nogood wrote:

richfaa wrote:

Our 3402 Big Sky should be here any day.The 2nd bath and 6 point leveling system was a must have. Hope the paint job takes care of the graphics issue. We have been unloading our 06 3400 Montana for a week. Can not believe the "stuff" in there. It will NOT go all back.

This will be our 6th Rv and the first time we purchased the same brand. Not saying the Montana is better than any of the others but coud not find another that we thought was better.



You hit the nail on the head , Quote : " Not saying the Montana is better than any of the others but could not find another that we thought was better ". That is hard for some here on the forum to grasp, yes they all have problems. I have been very fortunate to have owned two Montana's with very few problems. Some are convinced that longer warranties, or the known higher end are somehow going to be better, when in reality, and this is something you have pointed out time and again, they are built by the same work force,same vendors ,etc.


Have you looked at all the engineering drawings of each manufacturer and compared each feature such as frame specifications & dimensions, wall/ceiling/floor specifications/construction, specifications for all material used, etc, etc. Until one does that diligently, one cannot say they are all the same.


The answer to that is no as it would be a long and tedious task and I don't think I would understand much of what we saw as we are not engineers. Having the advantage of being in the Elkhart area for several days each year we have talked to and asked question of Lippert as to frame design.Specifications can be found on the manufactureres web sites.
We have interacted with just about every vendor and been to most of their plants..

They are still more alike than different.Don't know If we will have better luck with this RV or not. We do know there have been many improvements in 6 years.....and..... we will get another Extended warranty.


2013 Montana 3402 Big Sky. 08 Ford F-350 6.4L

Montana Glenn

Washington State

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Posted: 05/16/12 04:50pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We have had our 3402 with the leveling system (what a neat toy) for about a month and a half now. Other than the normal little bugs you go through with any new trailer, it has been fantastic through 3 weekend trips. We went from a 2006 36' Mountaineer with basically the same floor plan (one more slide in the kitchen area) to this one and really like all the additional features. The leveling system and not having to almost unpack the fridge to get to something you are looking for are two of my favorites. It seemed like our smaller fridge was always over packed just bringing the minimum stuff. Enjoy that new trailer! -Glenn


Glenn and Darcy
2012 Montana 3402RL
2008 F-450 4X4/Tow Command
Silverdale, WA
Retired US Submarine service (but still working for the government)

up2nogood

Utah

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Posted: 05/16/12 09:03pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

LostinAZ wrote:

up2nogood wrote:

richfaa wrote:

Our 3402 Big Sky should be here any day.The 2nd bath and 6 point leveling system was a must have. Hope the paint job takes care of the graphics issue. We have been unloading our 06 3400 Montana for a week. Can not believe the "stuff" in there. It will NOT go all back.

This will be our 6th Rv and the first time we purchased the same brand. Not saying the Montana is better than any of the others but coud not find another that we thought was better.



You hit the nail on the head , Quote : " Not saying the Montana is better than any of the others but could not find another that we thought was better ". That is hard for some here on the forum to grasp, yes they all have problems. I have been very fortunate to have owned two Montana's with very few problems. Some are convinced that longer warranties, or the known higher end are somehow going to be better, when in reality, and this is something you have pointed out time and again, they are built by the same work force,same vendors ,etc.


Have you looked at all the engineering drawings of each manufacturer and compared each feature such as frame specifications & dimensions, wall/ceiling/floor specifications/construction, specifications for all material used, etc, etc. Until one does that diligently, one cannot say they are all the same.


I did not do any of those things diligently, nor do I intend to. I know some have a hard time understanding this, but there are many happy Montana Fifth Wheel owners . To discredit everyone that has something good to say is beyond me. It's apparent you do not like the Montana fifth wheel, and thats okay with me, what's not okay is discrediting everything good that is said. State your problems , I have no doubt you have many complaints, but trust me when I say I have been very happy with my 2008 3400RL ,and have been for nearly 4*1/2 years.

LostinAZ

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Posted: 05/16/12 11:07pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

up2nogood wrote:

LostinAZ wrote:

up2nogood wrote:

richfaa wrote:

Our 3402 Big Sky should be here any day.The 2nd bath and 6 point leveling system was a must have. Hope the paint job takes care of the graphics issue. We have been unloading our 06 3400 Montana for a week. Can not believe the "stuff" in there. It will NOT go all back.

This will be our 6th Rv and the first time we purchased the same brand. Not saying the Montana is better than any of the others but coud not find another that we thought was better.



You hit the nail on the head , Quote : " Not saying the Montana is better than any of the others but could not find another that we thought was better ". That is hard for some here on the forum to grasp, yes they all have problems. I have been very fortunate to have owned two Montana's with very few problems. Some are convinced that longer warranties, or the known higher end are somehow going to be better, when in reality, and this is something you have pointed out time and again, they are built by the same work force,same vendors ,etc.


Have you looked at all the engineering drawings of each manufacturer and compared each feature such as frame specifications & dimensions, wall/ceiling/floor specifications/construction, specifications for all material used, etc, etc. Until one does that diligently, one cannot say they are all the same.


I did not do any of those things diligently, nor do I intend to. I know some have a hard time understanding this, but there are many happy Montana Fifth Wheel owners . To discredit everyone that has something good to say is beyond me. It's apparent you do not like the Montana fifth wheel, and thats okay with me, what's not okay is discrediting everything good that is said. State your problems , I have no doubt you have many complaints, but trust me when I say I have been very happy with my 2008 3400RL ,and have been for nearly 4*1/2 years.


In no way am I descrediting anyone or Keystone/Montana. There is a big difference between disagreeing with the premise that all RV's are built the same vs discrediting everyone. Why do you have to resort to personal attacks when someone disagrees with you? What I am saying is there is allot more to look at other than the viewable build procedures and limited depth of what is observed at a plant tour. I suggested there are many other things that are important as well that need to be understood and analyzed, which I have outlined in an earlier message. And most importantly the managment culture and focus at each plant is very important and neeeds to be understood. That will probably not be observed or understood during a plant tour.

Carl n Susan

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Posted: 05/17/12 12:03am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

cKarlGo wrote:



I considered a 3700/3800, but that floor plan has 2 serious design flaws in my opinion:

1. The washer/dryer does not plumb directly into the waste tank. You have to open the valve. That's a flood looking for a forgetful me and a place to happen.

2. In order to close the slides, the master BR door has to be open. If you forget it, the slide with crush the door or the door will go through the slide.


The washer/dryer in a 3700 is plumbed into the grey (shower) tank despite what you have been told (or read on a sticker attached to the closet wall).

As for opening the bedroom door before closing the slide, if this is a major concern, then I would also be concerned about closing cabinet doors, latching the refrigerator, ensuring the hitch fully captures the pin and all the other places one can screw up.

Ford Man

Tennessee

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Posted: 05/17/12 08:19am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We owned 3 Montanas and have had no major problems out of any of them. Just bought about 8 weeks ago a 2013 Landmark Full Body Paint. First of all my driveway is steep and the Landmark sits about 7 inches taller in the rear than the Montana with the same G Rated Tires on it. We also liked the Chocolate Full Body Paint better on the Landmark than the 2 Big Sky color options. Just my preference like everyone elses. Our Landmark has the door going to the Bedroom as mentioned in the previous tread about the 3700 and 3800 Montana. We just make sure the door is closed just as we do with all cabinet doors etc. before the slide outs are closed.

richfaa

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Posted: 05/17/12 09:24am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A plant tour can be very in depth any brand. On the tours we took during working hours we had plenty of time to observed each building process and ask questions.

During our Montana rally we tour the Montana Plant on a Saturday and the plant is all ours. Keystone Management is there conducting the tours and asking our input.

The culture at the plants is much the same as the workforce is much the same. The Rv plants draw from the same workforce pool in that area.

One can pretty much identity Management culture by observing the workforce, Observing the workplace environment and asking questions.

Every plant looks and feels pretty much the same.

LostinAZ

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Posted: 05/17/12 10:47am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A plant tour only shows you what the manufacturer wants you to see. It is mostly a sales tool used by the company. What goes on behind the scenes is the culture I'm talking about. The same goes for quality. The bling, the floor plan, the leveling system, the remote controls and the interior decorating are only the advertising face of the RV, it doesn't show the internal build quality. Most RV manufacturers know that we typical RV buyers won't look deeper than that. We get all excited about the toy aspect, we typically buy emotionally on the makeup and eyebrow liner and they market their RV's accordingly.

richfaa

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Posted: 05/17/12 05:09pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

On a plant Tour and I will use the Montanas as the example as we have taken that tour many times. You can observe the process from the frame and axles entering the first assembly station and every station to the finished product going out the door.I believe there are 14/16 stations along the way. Every stage of assembly is open to view. I do agree about the Management culture of the organization as I have a bit of experience in that field. one can draw many conclusions as to that culture by observing the workforce and the assembly process.


The assembly line is not a special line for tours only it is the line that is working every day. One can see the internal build quaity as all the things one can not see in the finished product are hanging out for all to see on the line...It is a enlightening experience.Some of the manufacturers do NOt allow pictures taken on their tours...I wonder why???

I have said before that if every buyer of a RV took the plant tour there would be a good chance that many would take up Golf instead.

LostinAZ

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Posted: 05/18/12 08:52am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Just another reason why a longer manufacturer's warranty is so important.

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