The 5r110 will hold much more power in stock form than an Allison will. Guys report limping Allisons with only a mild programmer.
Don't get me wrong, the Allison is a great tranny, but it is sensitive to added power. Any slip and it limps. It's too smart for it's own good. I could slip my dumb old 48RE all day until I burnt it up
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2007 Dodge 3500 SRW Megacab, 4x4, 5.9L Cummins, 3.73, 48RE auto HYPERTECH MAX ENERGY or DIABLO PREDATOR tuning MBRP 4" Turbo back Scangauge2 for Boost, Coolant temp, Rail press & Trans Temp
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The 4R100 can certainly be built strong. I had a BTS in my 96 F350 years ago and that tranny was stout. Brian builds 4R100's for anything from super heavy towing to drag racing and stands behind them. Price tag isn't cheap, I think I paid $3500 for mine, but in the long run I didn't ever have to worry about smoking my tranny again. Even so if it could be done I'd probably opt for the torqueshift. I really liked the tranny in my 04 F250.
carringb wrote: No matter how much you build up a 4R100, is still doesn't have the ratios advantage of the TorqueShift.
Powertrain Control Solution (PCS) makes a controller for the 5R110, but they don't support the programming. This requires ordering the PCS unit from Destroked.com who does the programming.
The factory Ford ECU will assume the truck has a manual transmission if the transmission control harness is unplugged, so it will still operate the motor properly.
Okay, it has an advantage, one more gear ,holds the gears a little longer, more power towing to get started. Out on the open road in OD same rpm, I don't claim to know how it all works, but I don't see a great advantage. Everyday driving, skip the towing, is there enough advantage to warrant the cost, unless it would cost less to go 5R110, then to properly build a 4R100 , if the time came when the 4R100 needs to be rebuilt. Heck we all would go the 5R110 if that is the case.
I may be mistaken, but this all may be a mute point, I thought I read on one of the ford forums that the 7.3 will not match up to the 5R110, this coming from Mark . Again it may have been something else concerning the 7.3. Have read a lot of threads on the 7.3, and don't remember anyone doing this conversion. Hopefully Mark Kovalsky will set us straight.
* This post was
edited 05/18/12 05:47pm by up2nogood *
The 5R110 will not bolt to a 7.3L. An adapter could fix that.
Then you need a way to control it. It is impossible to make the 4R100 controller work with the 5R110. Not difficult, it's impossible.
Getting the engine computer to talk to the trans computer is probably possible, but it's not going to be some simple conversion box, the 7.3L computer doesn't even calculate all the information the 5R110 controller needs, and it's loop time is WAY to slow for the 5R110 controller. It would be cheaper and faster to invent your own computer and write your own software. Budget several years and a few hundred thousand dollars to do this job right. Of course a hack job would be cheaper and faster, but it's not going to work very well.
Most swaps are at least possible. This one is theoretically possible, but not at all practicle.
Several people have told me that PCS makes a controller that can control the 5R110. Nobody has ever been able to tell me of even one person that has done this successfully. I don't think the PCS has the power to get that job done. Prove me wrong.
Mark
Former Ford Automatic Transmission Engineer, 1988-2007
The technical issue is to build a bridging / translation controller that takes the commands from the older (slower) bus TCM, and then interpolate it for the newer transmission.
Interesting that there is not a stand alone transmission box that is sold for the 5r100 that can allow a universal fit to other engines.
An bridging box avoids the issue of reprogramming --- but is not a perfect solution.
It is technically doable, but whether it is economically or practically doable is another issue.
Mark Kovalsky wrote: The 5R110 will not bolt to a 7.3L. An adapter could fix that.
Then you need a way to control it. It is impossible to make the 4R100 controller work with the 5R110. Not difficult, it's impossible.
Getting the engine computer to talk to the trans computer is probably possible, but it's not going to be some simple conversion box, the 7.3L computer doesn't even calculate all the information the 5R110 controller needs, and it's loop time is WAY to slow for the 5R110 controller. It would be cheaper and faster to invent your own computer and write your own software. Budget several years and a few hundred thousand dollars to do this job right. Of course a hack job would be cheaper and faster, but it's not going to work very well.
Most swaps are at least possible. This one is theoretically possible, but not at all practicle.
Several people have told me that PCS makes a controller that can control the 5R110. Nobody has ever been able to tell me of even one person that has done this successfully. I don't think the PCS has the power to get that job done. Prove me wrong.
Thanks, Mark; the impracticality of it makes my decision easy-- if I go 7.3L again, it'll be with a built 4r100 behind it.
If I'm rationale here, if my use of the truck is such that I "miss" a deeper first gear and more cogs, I probably would need a bigger/more powerful truck at that point.
BManning baking in Phoenix
2008 Ford Super Duty F250 XLT, 4x4, crew cab, 6.75' bed
5.4L V8 300hp/365ft-lb, 5sp Torqshift, 4.30 AAM gears
9400lb GVW 11200lb tow
2007 Volvo XC90 AWD V8
4.4L 311hp/325ft-lb, 6sp Aisin, loaded
6100lb GVW 5000lb tow
Mark Kovalsky wrote: The 5R110 will not bolt to a 7.3L. An adapter could fix that.
Then you need a way to control it. It is impossible to make the 4R100 controller work with the 5R110. Not difficult, it's impossible.
Getting the engine computer to talk to the trans computer is probably possible, but it's not going to be some simple conversion box, the 7.3L computer doesn't even calculate all the information the 5R110 controller needs, and it's loop time is WAY to slow for the 5R110 controller. It would be cheaper and faster to invent your own computer and write your own software. Budget several years and a few hundred thousand dollars to do this job right. Of course a hack job would be cheaper and faster, but it's not going to work very well.
Most swaps are at least possible. This one is theoretically possible, but not at all practicle.
Several people have told me that PCS makes a controller that can control the 5R110. Nobody has ever been able to tell me of even one person that has done this successfully. I don't think the PCS has the power to get that job done. Prove me wrong.
Thanks, Mark; the impracticality of it makes my decision easy-- if I go 7.3L again, it'll be with a built 4r100 behind it.
If I'm rationale here, if my use of the truck is such that I "miss" a deeper first gear and more cogs, I probably would need a bigger/more powerful truck at that point.
In the end Ford gives us the option of a good engine or a good Transmission. But not both together.
Sort of sums up why I left Ford after quite a few years and I'm currently driving a Duramax. I wanted both without seeking after market solutions.
Ford builds a better overall truck however its drivetrain has known shortcomings.
Maybe the 6.7 will eventually allow for both but that has yet to be seen.
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