There are places in this world where you can be arrested for charging more for a service than what is deemed to be fair. One such place is Cuba and another is North Korea. I would invite anyone who questions the right (or even the ethics) of a businessman to charge whatever he pleases for services rendered to go visit one of these countries or, better yet, just move there. Then you can post to the rest of us how you like an economic system that is based on so called "fairness" and which attempts to eliminate greed.
Cedarhill wrote: There are places in this world where you can be arrested for charging more for a service than what is deemed to be fair. One such place is Cuba and another is North Korea. I would invite anyone who questions the right (or even the ethics) of a businessman to charge whatever he pleases for services rendered to go visit one of these countries or, better yet, just move there. Then you can post to the rest of us how you like an economic system that is based on so called "fairness" and which attempts to eliminate greed.
Actually, we have price controls right here, too.
We have government fixed pricing on gasoline, rent, and unskilled labor, just to name a few. .. not to mention the massive increase, in the last couple years, of government oversight and enforcement, which is basically 'price control' on quality. I would say, quite the contrary to what you say (consumers clamoring for regulation) is true: it's unscrupulous proprietors who engage in gouging that create the apparent need for more government intervention- that slowly slides into the socialism found in Cuba.
But no one's advocating for price controls, here.
It's a question of disclosure
One of the great things about this forum, is the free exchange in an arena of ideas.
Explain to me, and the OP, how (for example) an advertised $50/night rate can become $90/night because there's 4 children in the party?
I thought perhaps some forum member... a campground owner maybe, could provide a better idea of what might justify that kind of CG pricing.
I suspect, the reason no real figures are being offered, is because it can't be justified... e.g. the lions share of CG fee is going to cover taxes, how does having an extra 'body' on the site justify a +25% surcharge? We all know utilities simply can't be consumed in that magnitude (unless they've brought a mobile welding facility with them), it was discussed in another thread by (who I'm assuming is) a CG owner, and confirmed ~$14/night was more than adequate to cover all possible utility expenses. Increased staffing is not a reasonable justification, as the primary service offered hasn't substantially changed... meaning, if you need to bring on more, or provide OT, the CG wasn't staffed properly to begin with.
How about the prices in your average 'general store'.... no price gouging going on there, eh? "No, no.. the milk truck can't negotiate the road you just came in on with your 40' fifth wheel... it has to be air-lifted in on a special refrigerated shipping container..."
Look, small business owners drive this economy, and I've never had a conversation with one that said he got into it to provide jobs- it's about turning a profit.. I understand that. The only point I'm making (and I think the OP), is: most private campground's engage in spurious surcharging.
As for me and mine, we enjoy our liberty to engage in a free market system, and spend our money elsewhere (with pleasantly disposed management, preferably)
If a campground advertises one price and charges another or fails to disclose their policies on charging extra for children (or anything else for that matter), then I would have to agree with you. That practice is not simply unethical - it is dishonest. It is a form of bait and switch.
From the comments I have read, some posters think a campground owner is unethical or immoral or dishonest if he charges more for extra children, even if it says so in his advertising. I don't agree. People have a right to do whatever they want with their businesses. Obviously, many people agree with me because these campgrounds are still in business. If any surcharge or policy of any kind is deemed excessive by a potential customer, he should simply just go elsewhere. Passing judgement on a business owner about which they know nothing is at least as morally wrong as using what some think (or imagine) is an unfair rate structure.
Whatever an owner's fee structure is, you have no right to demand justification for it. You only have the right to go elsewhere.
* This post was
edited 06/07/12 07:03am by Cedarhill *
Cedarhill wrote: There are places in this world where you can be arrested for charging more for a service than what is deemed to be fair. One such place is Cuba and another is North Korea. I would invite anyone who questions the right (or even the ethics) of a businessman to charge whatever he pleases for services rendered to go visit one of these countries or, better yet, just move there. Then you can post to the rest of us how you like an economic system that is based on so called "fairness" and which attempts to eliminate greed.
Actually, we have price controls right here, too.
We have government fixed pricing on gasoline, rent, and unskilled labor, just to name a few. .. not to mention the massive increase, in the last couple years, of government oversight and enforcement, which is basically 'price control' on quality. I would say, quite the contrary to what you say (consumers clamoring for regulation) is true: it's unscrupulous proprietors who engage in gouging that create the apparent need for more government intervention- that slowly slides into the socialism found in Cuba.
But no one's advocating for price controls, here.
It's a question of disclosure
One of the great things about this forum, is the free exchange in an arena of ideas.
Explain to me, and the OP, how (for example) an advertised $50/night rate can become $90/night because there's 4 children in the party?
I thought perhaps some forum member... a campground owner maybe, could provide a better idea of what might justify that kind of CG pricing.
I suspect, the reason no real figures are being offered, is because it can't be justified... e.g. the lions share of CG fee is going to cover taxes, how does having an extra 'body' on the site justify a +25% surcharge? We all know utilities simply can't be consumed in that magnitude (unless they've brought a mobile welding facility with them), it was discussed in another thread by (who I'm assuming is) a CG owner, and confirmed ~$14/night was more than adequate to cover all possible utility expenses. Increased staffing is not a reasonable justification, as the primary service offered hasn't substantially changed... meaning, if you need to bring on more, or provide OT, the CG wasn't staffed properly to begin with.
How about the prices in your average 'general store'.... no price gouging going on there, eh? "No, no.. the milk truck can't negotiate the road you just came in on with your 40' fifth wheel... it has to be air-lifted in on a special refrigerated shipping container..."
Look, small business owners drive this economy, and I've never had a conversation with one that said he got into it to provide jobs- it's about turning a profit.. I understand that. The only point I'm making (and I think the OP), is: most private campground's engage in spurious surcharging.
As for me and mine, we enjoy our liberty to engage in a free market system, and spend our money elsewhere (with pleasantly disposed management, preferably)
GOD BLESS AMERICA
You are making it way to complicated. Kids cost the CG additional money. Plain and simple. The issue does not involve the government or milk trucks etc.
I will agree $10.00 is excessive, however when charges are excessive they are often meant to discourage behavior or patronage. In short some CG do not want and excessive amount of kids,hence the high fees to discourage parents with more than a couple of kids.
So maybe in the in you and the CG can agree. You won't spend your money there and the CG won't have to deal with a lot of kids.
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dtzackus wrote: Heck call me old fashion, I love drive in's. You typically pay by the car load, not by the head count like campgrounds. LOL
What drive-in are you going to?? Most in the area have been charging per person for a few years now, which is still a great deal considering you get two movies compared to one. Clearly i'm missing a good one somewhere though if you pay by the car load. We went to Hazelton a few years back & threw the boys in the back & "hid" them so they could experience how we got in when we were teenagers. They LOVED it! Of course we didn't tell them that night was a special night with a coupon & paid by the car load.
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Unfortunately, this is going to be one of those areas where we'll never please everyone. I think if you aren't happy with the prices, then you are right in going elsewhere. I often do it myself. I look at the CG, and take into consideration what they have to offer they kids, do they charge an obscene amount more for extra kids and what the overall price will be. Lots of times i've moved on to other CG, & others i just bite the bullet.
I do believe that places like KOA's & Yogi's where they cater specifically towards families would be easier if they charged a flat rate for families upfront. It would save hassle and aggravation on both sides for having to sit & figure out how many kids do they allow for, how much are the extras, is there a limit. THEN, they need to offer a discount for those that are single or a couple without children.
Cedarhill wrote: There are places in this world where you can be arrested for charging more for a service than what is deemed to be fair. One such place is Cuba and another is North Korea. I would invite anyone who questions the right (or even the ethics) of a businessman to charge whatever he pleases for services rendered to go visit one of these countries or, better yet, just move there. Then you can post to the rest of us how you like an economic system that is based on so called "fairness" and which attempts to eliminate greed.
Actually, we have price controls right here, too.
We have government fixed pricing on gasoline, rent, and unskilled labor, just to name a few. .. not to mention the massive increase, in the last couple years, of government oversight and enforcement, which is basically 'price control' on quality. I would say, quite the contrary to what you say (consumers clamoring for regulation) is true: it's unscrupulous proprietors who engage in gouging that create the apparent need for more government intervention- that slowly slides into the socialism found in Cuba.
But no one's advocating for price controls, here.
It's a question of disclosure
One of the great things about this forum, is the free exchange in an arena of ideas.
Explain to me, and the OP, how (for example) an advertised $50/night rate can become $90/night because there's 4 children in the party?
I thought perhaps some forum member... a campground owner maybe, could provide a better idea of what might justify that kind of CG pricing.
I suspect, the reason no real figures are being offered, is because it can't be justified... e.g. the lions share of CG fee is going to cover taxes, how does having an extra 'body' on the site justify a +25% surcharge? We all know utilities simply can't be consumed in that magnitude (unless they've brought a mobile welding facility with them), it was discussed in another thread by (who I'm assuming is) a CG owner, and confirmed ~$14/night was more than adequate to cover all possible utility expenses. Increased staffing is not a reasonable justification, as the primary service offered hasn't substantially changed... meaning, if you need to bring on more, or provide OT, the CG wasn't staffed properly to begin with.
How about the prices in your average 'general store'.... no price gouging going on there, eh? "No, no.. the milk truck can't negotiate the road you just came in on with your 40' fifth wheel... it has to be air-lifted in on a special refrigerated shipping container..."
Look, small business owners drive this economy, and I've never had a conversation with one that said he got into it to provide jobs- it's about turning a profit.. I understand that. The only point I'm making (and I think the OP), is: most private campground's engage in spurious surcharging.
As for me and mine, we enjoy our liberty to engage in a free market system, and spend our money elsewhere (with pleasantly disposed management, preferably)
GOD BLESS AMERICA
You are making it way to complicated. Kids cost the CG additional money. Plain and simple. The issue does not involve the government or milk trucks etc.
I will agree $10.00 is excessive, however when charges are excessive they are often meant to discourage behavior or patronage. In short some CG do not want and excessive amount of kids,hence the high fees to discourage parents with more than a couple of kids.
So maybe in the in you and the CG can agree. You won't spend your money there and the CG won't have to deal with a lot of kids.
Exactly!!! When we decided to limit occupancy of all our sites to a maximum of six persons we thought long and hard about doing it by charging $25.00 for each occupant over six. Went with just saying "no", but the other way would have accomplished the exact same thing. As for higher prices on milk, for whatever reason that was brought up, most RV park stores are convienence stores, emphasizing convenience, they are not competing with the local Walmart or grocery store, they are competing with driving to the local Walmart or grocery store. You will always pay more for convenience and a campstore is no exception.
westernrvparkowner wrote: As for higher prices on milk, for whatever reason that was brought up, most RV park stores are convienence stores, emphasizing convenience, they are not competing with the local Walmart or grocery store, they are competing with driving to the local Walmart or grocery store. You will always pay more for convenience and a campstore is no exception.
While some CG's may have enough store business to warrant having an account/delivery with a local milk (or grocery) distrubution company, many of them do not. When my family owned their CG, WE had to drive to the local grocery to purchase every item in the conveinence store at the CG office. Hence, we had to mark up the items to cover our costs to purchase them, fuel to get them, staff time to stock them, etc.
I wouldn't ever expect CG groceries to be the same price as the local grocery store, and I will happily pay a higher price so I don't have to unhook, load up the kids, drive to an unfamiliar store, search for items...
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kaydeejay wrote: Just to play devil's advocate here for a moment.
I sometimes travel alone, but I still pay the same as a family of four does in most campgrounds.
Shouldn't I be getting upset at paying for facilities I don't use?
Not something that bothers me, simply another point of view.
The way I look at it is there a basic charge for the site, each campground has their own rules as what that is. The site charge is for 2 adults or a family of 4 depending on campground, anyting over and they can charge more. So don't look at it if you are only 1 adult you should pay less.
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We went to Hazelton a few years back & threw the boys in the back & "hid" them so they could experience how we got in when we were teenagers. They LOVED it! Of course we didn't tell them that night was a special night with a coupon & paid by the car load. 
