footballcamper
az
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Hello-
am thinking about purchasing a vehicle that I can tow behind my 2000 Jamboree- 30 ft. Current hitch capacity is 3500 lbs, the vehicles I am looking at are in the 4000 lb range.
I called my local shop about getting a frame extension to boost up my hitch capacity to 5000 lbs. However, he informed me that first they would have to redo my entire braking system on my coach (larger brakes, rotors, etc) for that to work.
does that sound right? i was hoping to be able to add a frame extension to my rig to get it up to the 5000 lb rating. I know that i will have to add a braking system to my toad, but I wasn't aware of having to redo the braking system on my rig.
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j-d
Sunny Florida USA
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Ford issued a chassis "stretching" guideline. Q-18 Here
There are also Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS).
Chassis "stretchers" need to comply with these. Based on what I see and read:
A compliant stretch of wheelbase/and/or rear overhang will preserve the OEM rating of the chassis. That leads to understanding on my part that you could replace your 3500# hitch with a 5000# hitch.
Ford emphasizes (and Jayco put a decal on our coach to emphasize) that the Braking System is rated at Gross VEHICLE Weight Rating (GVWR) and NOT Gross COMBINED Vehicle Weight Rating (GCWR). And goes on to state that the towed load must be equipped with appropriate brakes.
So...
Is there a Chassis Modification Certification Label in your door jamb? If so, it sounds to me like you don't need anything more than a hitch, to install yourself or have a shop install it. You could contact the Stretching Company to confirm. My belief is that the supplemental braking requirement is what needs to be met and you do not need to modify the coach's original brakes to tow a toad.
God Bless, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100
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footballcamper
az
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thanks j-d
no- there is not a label indicating that the chassis has been stretched, so I am assuming that i need to find a place that does that type of work here in Phoenix.
Thanks for the info!
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j-d
Sunny Florida USA
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Suggest you give this thread a day or so. Some of the guys are much more up on this aspect than I am. I'm going by what I can recall and what I've read on the web. Part of my hazy recall about this is that up toward the 1990's the coach builders had a free hand on frame extensions and Ford had to deal with warranty related to mods they didn't make or approve. If I recall the story correctly, Ford published their standards and a statement that warranty would not apply if the standards were not followed. This gave rise to a disciplined approach and preservation of the factory chassis ratings. So if your coach is a 2000 it would've been stretched by Ford's rules and all you should need is a hitch upgrade.
More of what I don't know: Would the 5000 hitch bolt up same as the 3500 coming off and if not would what I'll call "local reinforcement" be needed? Like if holes for new had to be drilled very close to holes for old. Again, this has been addressed here. Patience, please...
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eric1514
Sedona, AZ
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j-d wrote:...
A compliant stretch of wheelbase/and/or rear overhang will preserve the OEM rating of the chassis. That leads to understanding on my part that you could replace your 3500# hitch with a 5000# hitch...
If this were true, and I'm not saying it isn't, why would the MH manufacture not put a 5000# hitch on the vehicle instead of a 3500#. Certainly we can agree that the higher rated hitch would make the coach more desirable and I'll bet the price difference between the two is negligible. In fact, I'll wager that the difference between the two is the label.
Eric
1999 24' Fleetwood Jamboree towing a 2007 Hyundai Elantra
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Handbasket
Asheville, NC
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What's the difference between your actual scale weight when loaded for travel, and what the Ford (I assume) door sticker shows for gross combined vehicle weight?
Jim, "Now play nice, or Mommy will sell your souls on eBay."
'06 Tiger CX 'C Minus' on a Silverado 2500HD 4x4, 8.1 & Allison (aka 'Loafer's Glory') www.tigervehicles.com
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carringb
Corvallis, OR
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eric1514 wrote:
If this were true, and I'm not saying it isn't, why would the MH manufacture not put a 5000# hitch on the vehicle instead of a 3500#. Certainly we can agree that the higher rated hitch would make the coach more desirable and I'll bet the price difference between the two is negligible. In fact, I'll wager that the difference between the two is the label.
Eric
Most of them do now. I don't see any chassis differences between the coaches 10 years ago and the ones built now, except the longer coaches have finally adopted the longer wheelbases necessary to make them good drivers.
Bryan
2000 Ford E350 DRW Wagon (14-pass all captains chairs)
V10 w/ Banks PowerPack, Diablo Predator, 4.56 LS, ~350,000 miles
New Desert Fox in the works!
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j-d
Sunny Florida USA
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There's a huge difference between towing a 5000 pound SUV with towbar weight on the hitch and towing a 5000 pound trailer with 10% on the hitch. I tried to get details from Fords Q-18 stretching procedure. Ford commented that builders have to be careful about loading on rear (behind axle) frame extensions because the weight will UNLOAD the front axle. Remember, Ford wants 32% or more of loaded weight on that front axle. The weight rating on the 3500 hitch is usually 350 and that 150 less is a lot when you consider the leverage from axle all the way to hitch ball. That might've contributed to 3500 hitches. Then when one coach builder put 5000 hitches on, everybody had to match that bragging.
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eric1514
Sedona, AZ
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carringb wrote:eric1514 wrote:
If this were true, and I'm not saying it isn't, why would the MH manufacture not put a 5000# hitch on the vehicle instead of a 3500#. Certainly we can agree that the higher rated hitch would make the coach more desirable and I'll bet the price difference between the two is negligible. In fact, I'll wager that the difference between the two is the label.
Eric
Most of them do now. I don't see any chassis differences between the coaches 10 years ago and the ones built now, except the longer coaches have finally adopted the longer wheelbases necessary to make them good drivers.
And my point still stands. If its OK now and nothing has changed, as you say, why was the coach originally built with a 3500# hitch and not the more desirable 5000# version, which I maintain are identical except for labeling. Something else is going on here and it may not have anything to do with towing capacity.
I'm just curious here, not trying to argumentative. I own one of those older 3500# capable coaches but I tow a 2700# car.
Eric
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eric1514
Sedona, AZ
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j-d wrote:There's a huge difference between towing a 5000 pound SUV with towbar weight on the hitch and towing a 5000 pound trailer with 10% on the hitch. I tried to get details from Fords Q-18 stretching procedure. Ford commented that builders have to be careful about loading on rear (behind axle) frame extensions because the weight will UNLOAD the front axle. Remember, Ford wants 32% or more of loaded weight on that front axle. The weight rating on the 3500 hitch is usually 350 and that 150 less is a lot when you consider the leverage from axle all the way to hitch ball. That might've contributed to 3500 hitches. Then when one coach builder put 5000 hitches on, everybody had to match that bragging.
I think you're on to something here. Tongue weight could very well be the reason for the lower rating.
Eric
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