whisperide wrote: I've only had experience with 1 Donaldson, but it struck me as superior to the K&N I had. My K&N experience was just like everyone else reports: good flow, little filtering.
Let's get back on topic: spec me your truck so I can suggest a couple of camshafts, and the pros and cons of each.
Which engine? What rear tire size? What rear axle ratio? What transmission? What torque converter? 2WD or 4WD?
Good point. I'm curious as a bystander to what could be done with the engine that wouldn't be a major re-engineering job and a lot of expense. Logic tells me a turbocharger or supercharger would be the choices available, but can the transmission handle the increased power? I recall the Ford F-150 Lightning was capable of a tire smokin'/screechin' takeoff and was crazy fast, but had a rather limited towing/payload capability, much like the Ram with SRT/10 with the Viper engine under the hood. So is there something out there the OP could do that would give him the performance he seeks without compromise of towing capacity? Inquiring minds..............
Wolfcat1, What kind of truck is it? I will let everyone else argue about filters. They don't do enough to make a difference.
Now lets take an LSX motor...GM 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, 6.2 and a bunch of car motors like my LS1(5.7) or the following LS2 (6.0) LS3 (6.2) well you get the idea. I won't list them all here.
I have a 2002 Chevy 2500 HD 6.0/4L80E
When I did my custom dyno tune and no other mods I picked up 15 HP and 10 FT/lbs of torque at the wheels on a Mustang Dyno.
GM has them very conservativelyy tuned from the factory. I also changed torque converter lock up and got rid of any type of torque management GM had programmed in.
With headers, exhaust, CAI and a retune for those items I picked up another 28 and 20 FT/lbs of torque, so that is 43 HP and 30 FT/LBS of torque for the following money 500 exhaust at a local shop, 269 CAI, 800 dollar headers. It gets pricey, but I only paid 12,000 for the truck with 23,000 miles on it.
I have a Cam waiting for install in the garage. I expect to see a rear wheel gain of about 30 HP and 30 ft/lbs of torque.
I did all the same stuff plus heads on my Trans Am and I am just over 420 HP and 390 Ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheels, of course the cam in the Trans Am is slightly larger than what will go in the truck. With N20 the Trans Am is just over 500 RWHP... . There will be no N20 on the truck .
On most modern N/A motors you are limited to about 6 to 8 lbs of boost with a good tune. That is on the stock bottom end without hurting reliability (LSx motors, not sure about Ford, Dodge, Nissan or Toyota but it is probably close.) After that it is a shot in the dark, unless you upgrade the internals. What is your goal here?
A good singal turbo kit for an LSx that runs 6 to 8 lbs of boost reliabily will set you back about 5000 bucks when all said and done. You will be looking at about a 70 to 100 RWHP gain if you do noting else. No heads, Cam or exhaust.
Any blower/Supercharger kit for an LSx truck tells you not to tow with it, the same may go for a turbo I have not checked. I pefer to go N/A in my stuff unless I can add a little juice to it(N20).
Bottom line is I am ok with High RPMs in the higher elevations. If you can't stand to hear the motor or afraid it is going to break you next best bet is Big Block, V-10 or Diesel.
I like my small blocks.
Mike
2002 Silverado 2500 HD 6.0 Crew Cab long bed
2012 Passport 3220 BHWE
Me, the Wife, two little ones and two dogs.
Hannibal wrote: $16 for a Purolator filter ever 25k miles or about once a year and simply pitch the old one vs $107 for two K&N filters plus the cost of the cleaning and oiling kits and time to clean and oil and a place to store the extra filter and grease to seal it with...
Hannibal, honestly dude. Get into a habit of reading the post you quote. Instead of skimming over it and taking out the parts that work for you, and then making up the rest....
-I use AFE, not K&N. There is a big difference.
-I personally would not use a $16. purolater air filter, It may be ok for a gas engine. But I wouldn't trust it on my turbocharged truck, know what I mean. Heck even the stock mopar filter for my 6.7 is $40.00 and it's a glorified Fram.
- Let's use your logic in mathematics though, I keep my vehicles 10 yrs, I have been changing /switching out my Airfilter's 2 times in the spring/summer and 1 time in the fall winter. It's dusty here in the prairies, and I work on construction sites., my truck will see mileage tip 40k a year....
$120 bucks a year for Fram filters= $1200. for 10 yrs. maybe a bit more, but certainly not less.
My AFE is $200.(internet) one time plus cleaner and oil. I usually go a yr with a cleaner kit easy.
$20 a yr cleaner for 10 yrs, + $200. for the one time cost of the AFE, = $400. in total cost.
Make sense?.... or not.
BTW why would you grease the filter, to seal it? you don't do it for your paper filter. Why the oiled filter?. I dunno Hannibal, I think you are reaching again.....
I have a 2002 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 liter with a supercharger. I pull a 4 horse trailer with a 10 foot short wall camper. Empty weight is 8420 loaded is 10250 and max ever was 12900LBS. I pull this load over the Colorado Rockies.
I was not happy with the way my truck towed at high altitude so I could buy a new truck, put a new engine in my truck or go with forced induction. I did FI and it is a lot of fun. My truck has 170,000 miles on it and the oil reports are coming back very good. BTW I have a K&N filter too. I have a Black Bear Tune, 8.1 liter injectors and larger exhaust.
The only way to make more power is to get more air and fuel in the cylinders and get more exhaust out. When doing that the major by product is heat. I have a largest transmission cooler they could get on my truck and an oversized radiator.
My truck pulling my trailer is able to stay with traffic all the way to the Eisenhower Tunnel, at the top I was doing about 35MPH in 2nd gear. Going uphill I drive my boost gauge and try to stay between 2-4lbs boost. My water temp was 235 at first then cooled to 185 as we got higher. The tranny was up to 225 but once the traffic thinned I was able to keep the torque converter locked and it went down to the normal 200. For all of this the outside air temp was 75 at the bottom and 60 at the top.
Empty my truck is a blast to drive but with all the torque management still in the computer I can just barely spin the tires starting off.
If you have a GM LSX engine they take to FI very well, the bottom end is very strong and the power from the factory is conservative. I don’t know much about other manufactures, however.
Is there any specific question you would like answered?
My supercharger is an ATI ProCharger centripetal compressor. It has a self-contained oil system
....I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic...
Hannibal wrote: $16 for a Purolator filter ever 25k miles or about once a year and simply pitch the old one vs $107 for two K&N filters plus the cost of the cleaning and oiling kits and time to clean and oil and a place to store the extra filter and grease to seal it with...
Hannibal, honestly dude. Get into a habit of reading the post you quote. Instead of skimming over it and taking out the parts that work for you, and then making up the rest....
-I use AFE, not K&N. There is a big difference.
-I personally would not use a $16. purolater air filter, It may be ok for a gas engine. But I wouldn't trust it on my turbocharged truck, know what I mean. Heck even the stock mopar filter for my 6.7 is $40.00 and it's a glorified Fram.
- Let's use your logic in mathematics though, I keep my vehicles 10 yrs, I have been changing /switching out my Airfilter's 2 times in the spring/summer and 1 time in the fall winter. It's dusty here in the prairies, and I work on construction sites., my truck will see mileage tip 40k a year....
$120 bucks a year for Fram filters= $1200. for 10 yrs. maybe a bit more, but certainly not less.
My AFE is $200.(internet) one time plus cleaner and oil. I usually go a yr with a cleaner kit easy.
$20 a yr cleaner for 10 yrs, + $200. for the one time cost of the AFE, = $400. in total cost.
Make sense?.... or not.
BTW why would you grease the filter, to seal it? you don't do it for your paper filter. Why the oiled filter?. I dunno Hannibal, I think you are reaching again.....
Ok "dude", go ahead and enlighten me. What's the difference between AFE and K&N other than the company name and cool sticker? The warranty "or lack of" is the same'
I used Purolator air, oil and fuel filters on my four Cummins engines as well as Fleetguard. What damage was done that I didn't know about? I even used a couple of Fram air filters. The Mopar is a glorified Fleetguard on the Cummins, not Fram.
I'll spend about $200 in ten years for air filters and no mess to mess around with. Works great for me. I thought you said you bought "two" filters so you could use one while prepping the other? So you've saved $400 over ten years according to your inflated air filter prices, that's only $5 per air filter change with the time and mess involved. I'd rather be doing something else for $5. But if it makes sense to you... Sounds like a nuisance to me. I'd rather just throw the old filter away than put it back on my truck.
Going by K&N's instructions, you put grease on the seal to help it work minimally since the seal is designed to be used over an over rather than seal correctly. Is the AFE different?
According to the firewall on my MacBook, the AFE site contains malware. I don't like 'em already. But as long as you're happy with it and you think there's a benefit and I'm happy with mine and I also think there's a benefit, not a problem dude.
'10 F250 XLT CC SB 5.4L 5spdTS 3.73
ex '95 Cummins,'98 12v Cummins,'01.5 Cummins,'03 Cummins; '05 Hemi
'07 KZ Jag 28JFSS.
See, I'm not the only one advocating the cam.
Hey LS1mike, what specs on your cam for your pickup? And that gain, are you expecting only 30 at the crank, or only 30 at the rear wheels? I gained 40 ft-lbs and 50 HP. My gains start at just 1500 RPM. Maybe you chose the wrong specs?
'06 GMC C2500HD RCLB gasser 4.10:1, 4L80E, custom camshaft
'84 Trans Am 6.2 diesel, 700R-4, custom Class-3 receiver
'69 F350 dually. GM 6.2 diesel, turbo, 700R-4, NP208 all pending.
Hannibal wrote: $16 for a Purolator filter ever 25k miles or about once a year and simply pitch the old one vs $107 for two K&N filters plus the cost of the cleaning and oiling kits and time to clean and oil and a place to store the extra filter and grease to seal it with...
Hannibal, honestly dude. Get into a habit of reading the post you quote. Instead of skimming over it and taking out the parts that work for you, and then making up the rest....
-I use AFE, not K&N. There is a big difference.
-I personally would not use a $16. purolater air filter, It may be ok for a gas engine. But I wouldn't trust it on my turbocharged truck, know what I mean. Heck even the stock mopar filter for my 6.7 is $40.00 and it's a glorified Fram.
- Let's use your logic in mathematics though, I keep my vehicles 10 yrs, I have been changing /switching out my Airfilter's 2 times in the spring/summer and 1 time in the fall winter. It's dusty here in the prairies, and I work on construction sites., my truck will see mileage tip 40k a year....
$120 bucks a year for Fram filters= $1200. for 10 yrs. maybe a bit more, but certainly not less.
My AFE is $200.(internet) one time plus cleaner and oil. I usually go a yr with a cleaner kit easy.
$20 a yr cleaner for 10 yrs, + $200. for the one time cost of the AFE, = $400. in total cost.
Make sense?.... or not.
BTW why would you grease the filter, to seal it? you don't do it for your paper filter. Why the oiled filter?. I dunno Hannibal, I think you are reaching again.....
Ok "dude", go ahead and enlighten me. What's the difference between AFE and K&N other than the company name and cool sticker? The warranty "or lack of" is the same'
I used Purolator air, oil and fuel filters on my four Cummins engines as well as Fleetguard. What damage was done that I didn't know about? I even used a couple of Fram air filters. The Mopar is a glorified Fleetguard on the Cummins, not Fram.
I'll spend about $200 in ten years for air filters and no mess to mess around with. Works great for me. I thought you said you bought "two" filters so you could use one while prepping the other? So you've saved $400 over ten years according to your inflated air filter prices, that's only $5 per air filter change with the time and mess involved. I'd rather be doing something else for $5. But if it makes sense to you... Sounds like a nuisance to me. I'd rather just throw the old filter away than put it back on my truck.
I do not have a membership to that Dodge site, it won't allow me to open the page.
If you have a membership to TDR, you can do a search for AFE and the stock filter box testing they did. You will see how well the AFE did over stock paper elements under the same conditions. But again, that's not why I use them. I work my truck on construction sites pushing the 40K mileage annually. I will continue to change my filter out, 3 times a year because of these conditions. If I drove 25K a year and used my truck as a "grocery getter" than by all means, a paper toss away filter would work.
I got news for you though, a Fram air filter is what came out of my 2012 cummins, with a Fleetgaurd oil filter.
I'm still not sure if I would use purolater, Fleetgaurd yes, however they are still disposable ( and $40 each), so that won't work for me. If you noticed no damage in your engines good for you, however I guess ignorance is bliss..
Going by K&N's instructions, you put grease on the seal to help it work minimally since the seal is designed to be used over an over rather than seal correctly. Is the AFE different?
YES, AFE doesn't require it. They use a Polyurethane seal unlike K&N. AGAIN, Hannibal the fine print.
According to the firewall on my MacBook, the AFE site contains malware. I don't like 'em already. But as long as you're happy with it and you think there's a benefit and I'm happy with mine and I also think there's a benefit, not a problem dude.
But, you are not adding anything to the discussion (again) I don't know about Malware as thousands of people buy from them every year, so...?
The total cost of my filter setup is $90 for each filter =$180. plus $20 for shipping (give or take). The cleaning kits are $20 per year. That $200. initial cost and $400. for the 10 yrs. What's not to get?
Everyone on this site knows you have had Cummins in the past, (it's all we hear actually.) That was 10 years ago now and things in the diesel world have changed a bit since then. And you are driving a gasser now... Make sense?. Or not?
whisperide wrote: See, I'm not the only one advocating the cam.
Hey LS1mike, what specs on your cam for your pickup? And that gain, are you expecting only 30 at the crank, or only 30 at the rear wheels? I gained 40 ft-lbs and 50 HP. My gains start at just 1500 RPM. Maybe you chose the wrong specs?
At the wheels. I will have to go out and find the Cam card, but it is really mild.
The Trans Am has a 228/230 .575/.593 112 LSA
The truck is a 112 LSA but I can't rememeber the rest of the specs. I want to say it was .490ish lift and duration was around the 220-25 mark.
I will change the valve springs anyway. I had to in the Trans Am.
SoCalDesertRider wrote: I used to run K&N filters on my 3-wheelers and dirt bikes... I was very religious about properly cleaning and re-oiling the filters and doing it very often, ...
I will NEVER EVER run a K&N filter on ANYTHING ever again, especially on a vehicle used off road or in a dusty environment. They flow plenty of air, but they really suck at filtering the air they flow .
There are better filters out there than K&N that still flow plenty of air.
I had a similar experience with K&N filters on my Land Cruiser. About once a year I clean out my intake, and I was shocked at how much buildup was there after running a K&N for several thousand miles.
Like SoCal, I switched back to paper IMMEDIATELY and stay with paper religiously these days.
Same here on a 2003 Honda VT1100 cruiser. I put the K&N on at about 3K miles. I noticed some grime in the airbox when cleaning the filter but didn't think much of it. I had to have both carbs rebuit at 22K miles. The mechanic told me of other similar stories. Went back to paper and after another 40K miles (64K total) I have had no problems and the airbox stays clean. I wouldn't buy another one.
dfranky wrote: I got news for you though, a Fram air filter is what came out of my 2012 cummins, with a Fleetgaurd oil filter.
I'm still not sure if I would use purolater, Fleetgaurd yes, however they are still disposable ( and $40 each), so that won't work for me. If you noticed no damage in your engines good for you, however I guess ignorance is bliss..
If you say so chief. Even if your Cummins Ram came with a Fram air filter in it, which it didn't, what would be wrong with that? they do their job as well as any. My filter minders didn't differ by brand of filter. And now that you've gone on to personal attacks, exactly what damage was done to my Cummins Rams that my ignorance has allowed to go unnoticed?
If there was an advantage to owning a diesel today for my work truck and tow vehicle, I would own one still.
The topic is about air intake on a gas engine. Your blather is what's taking away from the thread. Go away.
Offline
. There will be no N20 on the truck 
.
