I spent about 6 hours today off and on reading threads about Lippert frame failures and I have to say, I am now extremely nervous about commiting $40-70k on a 5th wheel. I realize now that most 5th wheels use Lippert frames and that there are still many units and owners that have had no issues. Still, the issues I have read about cannot be dismissed. I am starting to feel like I am going to be playing a round of roulette with my hard earned money.
I know that most 5ers have enclosed bellies and panels covering much of the frame, especially in areas where failures have been occuring. Outside of the axles and shackles, I am thinking inspections would be difficult, if not overwhelming for someone like myself.
So my question is this, is a 3rd Party RV inspection worth the money? Does anyone have a history of using this type of service? I know boat inspections or surveys are highly advised. However, I am not even sure an RV inspection would catch issues beyond cosmetic or functional failures with the RV's mechanical or electrical features. I surely don't want to have the dealer do the inspection (fox counting the chickens comes to mind).
I don't want this to become a Lippert bashing thread, there are enough already. So there has been failures and also many RV's without failures. I guess the task at hand is to inspect and try to gain some advantage.
Going to be pretty hard to get an owner/dealer to allow you to remove overhang panel etc. for an inspection.
The best you could do is take measurement between pin box and bottom of front cap before and after hitching. All pin box structures will have some flex but any difference greater than 3/8" would cause suspicion.
A 3rd party inspection when purchasing used is probably money well spent.
New.......do your own detailed inspection before signing papers, then a through PDI before picking rig up and then get dealer to resolve problems in a timely manner. Items noted on PDI should be taken care of prior to pick up so give dealer a couple of weeks after PDI to resolve. Then IF issues arise, immediately contact dealer and hound them
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A lot of the Lippert problems stem from the specs the RV mfg gives to them. The high end RV's will have a much better frame. Why do you think a 39 foot Montana can weigh so little, it is called a light weight frame and just won't hold up as well as the stronger higher speced frames.
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If we were able to compare Lippert frames under a 13Klb 39ft Montana with a 18,5Klb 38 ft Mobile Suites I wonder what we would find??
I'm sure the Mobile Suites would have more and thicker steel, but I have to wonder whether we would we see any difference in attention to detail and weld quality?
So maybe it is just the poorly engineered and spec'd out frames that fail and the weld quality and attention to details (or the lack there of) in manufacturing means nothing.
I have yet to see what I would describe as a Lippert frame made with a high level of attention to detail and evidence of careful quality welds.
while I ma not a licensed welder I have certainly done enough welding over the years to recognize quality welding versus quick and dirty.
With regards to a pre-parchase inspection the best thing for you might be a tour of the manufacturers plant during which you can see trailers in various stages of completion.
Look for evidence of attention to detail and thoughtful manufacturing techniques may be your best piece of mind. Tour 2 or three different builders plants from low-end to high-end units and you will be amazed at the differences.
As to hiring a third party inspection service if you try and find an experienced independent RV technician with welding knowledge and pay them enough that the dealer does not pay them off you might get a realistic evaluation of the unit, But that evaluation is based only on what is visible.
Assumptions and conclusions will have to be drawn on all hidden aspects of manufacturing.
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I think a professional pre-purchase inspection is mandatory for any RV purchase even if it is new. There are a lot of dealers who have little knowlege about the products they sell new or used. Most manufacturers depend on the dealers to correct their mistakes and of course poor design. The RV industry is not as disciplined as the auto industry and are too capable of building crap.
My rig has a Lippert frame and axles. I haven't inspected the welds in the pin box area but every other one I've looked at has been good to my amateur eyes.
OTOH, my pin box bolts worked loose and had to be re-tightened - sloppy assembly.
Even a proper marine survey by certified surveyers can miss unseen problems, and their survey reports contain legalise to hold them harmless. I don't think there are any "certified" RV inspectors to be found, but if you would feel more comfortable with an inspection, then you should have one done.
I have observed posts where a pin box attachment failure happens at 3 or 5 or x years, so obviously in some cases it can take a while for the problem to occur. I think Old-Bicuit's recommendation about hooking up to see if the pin box flexes is a good one. Bottom line I think is to exercise your due diligence to check out the unit as best you can, with assistance if necessary, and hope the unit has been properly taken care of and not abused.
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I had a 04 Fleetwood Quantum, 38.5 5th. The underbelly was not closed in so could crawl under and see how the frame was built. I could not believe how bad the welds were. I don't mean to start a lippert bash just saying look and see what you are getting. I traded my last unit for a Cameo. No comparison in quality over many of the rvs out there. however; you have to pay for it. There is a new company called Lifestyle, that replaces Carriage. They build their own frames. Nu Way builds their frames, and I think Excel. Only problem they are heavier and more expensive. I dropped 6 ft. of trailer to get quality and not to heavy. This trailer is very liveable, and well made.
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Cummins12V98 wrote: A lot of the Lippert problems stem from the specs the RV mfg gives to them. The high end RV's will have a much better frame. Why do you think a 39 foot Montana can weigh so little, it is called a light weight frame and just won't hold up as well as the stronger higher speced frames.
BS - you're talking trash. Nobody writes bad welds into a spec. Let's not turn this into a Montana bashing thread either - even though it is clear you have an issue with them on other threads.
* This post was
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When we bought our first Mobile Suites it wasn't because of how the welds to the frame looked. I was satisfied that the frame was spec'd to be able to carry the weight and it was the rest of the stuff that sold us. I know there have been lots of mention of the looks of the welds but it also seems, if I remember correctly, that the welds aren't failing, but the steel is?
Anyway, if I were concerned about Lippert frame problems down the road, I would do what research I could and not buy the brand/models that seem to have the issues. Then I'd realize that out of the ten's of thousands of 5er's out there, there are realatively few with failures. Good luck on your decision.
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