Cummins12V98 wrote: A lot of the Lippert problems stem from the specs the RV mfg gives to them. The high end RV's will have a much better frame. Why do you think a 39 foot Montana can weigh so little, it is called a light weight frame and just won't hold up as well as the stronger higher speced frames.
BS - you're talking trash. Nobody writes bad welds into a spec. Let's not turn this into a Montana bashing thread either - even though it is clear you have an issue with them on other threads.
Hey MILE HIGH air must be a little thin up there!
Would it make you feel better if I substitute Big Horn or Cardinal???????
Where did I mention anything about WELDS???????? Re read what I said!
A lighter speced frame WILL NOT HOLD UP AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!
Don't blame lippert for what M.....a specs or any other mfg.
The same goes for the same mfgs that spec the cheapest tires, and see what you get there!
These things get the S--T beat out of them going down the road and a light weight frame on a LONG RV will have more problems.
Montanas have their place, my OPINION is they are not built solid enough for full time use with a lot of road time.
2011 Ram Laramie Longhorn 3500 Dually Long Bed, Cummins 350/800 HO, Towin Machine
B&W Companion Hitch, Maghytec Trans and Rear Dif Covers, AMZ/OIL Top To Bottom
2007 1/2 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 27,000# Combined
Cummins12V98 wrote: A lot of the Lippert problems stem from the specs the RV mfg gives to them. The high end RV's will have a much better frame. Why do you think a 39 foot Montana can weigh so little, it is called a light weight frame and just won't hold up as well as the stronger higher speced frames.
BS - you're talking trash. Nobody writes bad welds into a spec. Let's not turn this into a Montana bashing thread either - even though it is clear you have an issue with them on other threads.
Hey MILE HIGH air must be a little thin up there!
Would it make you feel better if I substitute Big Horn or Cardinal???????
Where did I mention anything about WELDS???????? Re read what I said!
A lighter speced frame WILL NOT HOLD UP AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!
Don't blame lippert for what M.....a specs or any other mfg.
The same goes for the same mfgs that spec the cheapest tires, and see what you get there!
These things get the S--T beat out of them going down the road and a light weight frame on a LONG RV will have more problems.
Montanas have their place, my OPINION is they are not built solid enough for full time use with a lot of road time.
The air is fine here but its getting a little foul with your BS.
I would actually feel better if you started whipping another brand besides Montana - or are you really Dean with yet another identity and you're out to make your mark against Montana! Seems the only frame failures I have seen in the last year have been another popular brand that I won't mention because I don't like to stereotype or brand bash.
You have your theory and you can drowned in it if you want, but I blame Lippert for putting out inferior products and I'm sorry Keystone has to deal with them at all.
PS - You don't need to explain your OPINION on Montana, as it has no credibility anyway. Who cares what your opinion is.
* This post was
edited 07/01/12 03:23pm by Mile High *
Cummins12V98 wrote: A lot of the Lippert problems stem from the specs the RV mfg gives to them. The high end RV's will have a much better frame. Why do you think a 39 foot Montana can weigh so little, it is called a light weight frame and just won't hold up as well as the stronger higher speced frames.
BS - you're talking trash. Nobody writes bad welds into a spec. Let's not turn this into a Montana bashing thread either - even though it is clear you have an issue with them on other threads.
Hey MILE HIGH air must be a little thin up there!
Would it make you feel better if I substitute Big Horn or Cardinal???????
Where did I mention anything about WELDS???????? Re read what I said!
A lighter speced frame WILL NOT HOLD UP AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!
Don't blame lippert for what M.....a specs or any other mfg.
The same goes for the same mfgs that spec the cheapest tires, and see what you get there!
These things get the S--T beat out of them going down the road and a light weight frame on a LONG RV will have more problems.
Montanas have their place, my OPINION is they are not built solid enough for full time use with a lot of road time.
The air is fine here but its getting a little foul with your BS.
I would actually feel better if you started whipping another brand besides Montana - or are you really Dean with yet another identity and you're out to make your mark against Montana! Seems the only frame failures I have seen in the last year have been another popular brand that I won't mention because I don't like to stereotype or brand bash.
You have your theory and you can drowned in it if you want, but I blame Lippert for putting out inferior products and I'm sorry Keystone has to deal with them at all.
PS - You don't need to explain your OPINION on Montana, as it has no credibility anyway. Who cares what your opinion is.
Sorry, not DEAN!
You are a very sensitive person, sorry to have upset you so much by useing the RV that you happen to have as an example of what can happen to a light weight frame with such a long RV.
I never said Lippert was a good bad or ugly frame manufacturer, I said what can happen when you over load a light weight frame with a long RV.
Who cares what my opinion is?????? I know a few who do!
Why does Keystone HAVE TO DEAL WITH LIPPERT? They could use Youngs Welding in Chanute KS, probably the best frame mfg in the rv biz.
I've been reading posts and reports for days now and these Lippert frame failures seem to affect just about every manufacturer that uses them on a regular basis. I agree that the RV manufacturer as well as Lippert should be held equally accountable. If Lippert isn't building frames with quality steel or their quality control is lacking, then they should step up and resolve the issues. However, I can also see where RV manufacturers might be building larger rigs on frames that might be at their limit.
It is true that marine surveys don't always catch everything, however they are still pretty thorough if you get the right surveyor. I realize that the dealers won't think kindly of me insisting the rig be partially disassembled for a PDI, so that is probably out as well.
I have been looking for reviews on the units and models I am interested in. If we could afford a DRV, Excel, or other higher end unit from a manufacturer that builds their own frames, I would go that route, but the big road block for us is the truck. I have no plans to upgrade our current rig at this time. Perhaps in 4 years or so and it will be a dually. I've looked at the shorter rigs, but even those are still outside our weight rating when you look at the higher end units that build their own frames.
I am going to keep researching the units we are interested in.
I am curious, is their a database or other resource available showing complaints lodged against manufacturers?
Also, I sent Coachmen an email asking for model year differences and asking specifically how they address or mitigate frame failres. Coachmen being one of the lines I am looking at. I may just have to take the time to drive to Indiana and take a tour. I'm not one to really gamble.
FYI, DRV has Lippert make their frames to their specs. Quote: However, I can also see where RV manufacturers might be building larger rigs on frames that might be at their limit.
I totally agree that was the intent of my disputed post.
MILE HIGH
I have had personal experience with a frame that was built too light and I am lucky to be here to tell about it.
2002 Avion Platinum 32.5' (Fleetwood) on the bottom of the frames I beam where all 4 leaf spring U supports attach the bottom flange of the I beam actually broke and one of the four actually broke off with the U hanging down from the end of the spring with the 3/16" x 4" pc of frame attached! This caused the rv to list to one side. Thankfully we were close to home on a long trip from So Cal.
I completely re built the area of the frame where the suspension attached and I probably added 175 # of steel to make it strong like it should have been from the factory.
Avion bragged about their light weight frame! Like I said lightweight is not always good.
We came clost to buying the Montana 3400 in 2005 but when we realized it was around 39' long we decided on the Avion that was more suited to our TV. We liked the Montans a lot but with time and experience from friends we took Montana out of our list of future rv's because we travel a lot and full time use our rig that is why we ended up with the Mobile suites.
* This post was
edited 07/01/12 08:58pm by Cummins12V98 *
The only one calling anything lightweight is you. Lightweight frames are under ultralight trailers, not Montana or Avion. You are assuming the frames are ovorloaded as well, and they are not nor have they had catastrophic failures as a result of overload. Where they have failed is in under engineered stress points lacking proper reinforcement and proper welds. You dont have to add weight to the frame to make it stronger, you just have to build it correctly, something that doesn't always get defined in a spec. A few pounds of gussets in the right place and better welds would improve Lippert's quality tremendously, on Montana and Mobile Suite.
Have a great weekend yourself! Seems like you are the sensitive one or you wouldn't feel compelled to continue calling me out before I even had the chance to respond to your last BS....Dean .
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