Mello Mike wrote: All batteries, including AGMs, should be vented. AGMs don't normally out-gas, but they do if they're ever overcharged. For this purpose Lifeline states that their batteries should always be vented. Better to be safe than sorry.
With all due respect, I think Lifeline says they should not be in an enclosed container, or something to that effect. Do you have a link and a quote for Lifelines statement?
Even if they out gassed to a dangerous level while being overcharged, please provide details and a link.
Wayne
Hi Wayne,
Here's the quote from their owner's manual: "WARNING: All batteries must be adequately vented during charging to avoid accumulation of explosive hydrogen gasses. Never install or charge in a sealed container or room."
Before that warning the manual states that their batteries were designed to reduce outgassing under normal charging conditions.
Your post is what the posted manual says. At the risk of sounding augmentative, I do find the Lifeline post kinda vague; "adequately vented during charging", what is adequately vented? Almost as vague, "Never install or charge in a sealed container or room." Does the reference to a room mean a sealed room, or any room? My manual is a little more specific.
In support of my seeing the data as being vague, my 35 page manual is:
Document No. 6-0101
Revision B
September 9, 2009
On page 3, it says in part:
"DANGER OF EXPLODING BATTERIES
Lead acid batteries can produce explosive mixtures of hydrogen and oxygen. Take the following precautions:
? Never install batteries in an airtight or sealed enclosure and make sure installation is adequately ventilated."
Also on page 23, it provides details. Please note the reference to sealed or an airtight container:
6.1 Release of Ignitable Gasses
All lead acid batteries, including VRLA batteries, produce hydrogen and oxygen gases during normal charging. Even though VRLA batteries are designed to recombine these gases internally, the recombination efficiency is less than 100%. Small amounts of hydrogen and oxygen are released from the pressure relief valve during charging. Normally, the hydrogen gas dissipates very rapidly and never reaches a concentration level that is hazardous. However, if the battery is installed in an enclosure with minimal airflow, the concentration of hydrogen could
build up to a high enough concentration to be of concern. Hydrogen can ignite at concentrations as low as 4% in air. For this reason, never install a Lifeline® AGM battery in a sealed or an airtight container."
I thought this was pretty clear, "Never install batteries in an airtight or sealed enclosure". A TC, in my opinion is a long way from being airtight, and not sealed. If it does not have adequate ventilation, we could not survive in it.
When in the Army, I was driving a truck that had a battery over charge malfunction. They were flooded wet cells, under the driver seat (plywood covered canvas). It smelled so bad, and the seat was real hot, I cannot imaging how it could not be obvious to anyone in the cab of that truck. Fortunately no explosion, for what ever reason. After re-reading all of the information, I am still comfortable with my "in the TC install" of my AGM. I guess folks will have to weigh the information for themselves.
btggraphix wrote: Are ALL AGM's OK to be in a sealed area? I've been looking at Deka batteries as a candidate for my new battery bank but they don't seem to advertise them being mounted inside cabins and sealed boxes much, not like Liefline anyway. They push their Gell-Cell batteries like that, but not so much their AGM's.
btggraphix wrote: Are ALL AGM's OK to be in a sealed area? ...
I question that any AGM are OK in a "sealed area". However, I question a TC fitting the description of a "sealed area".
Wayne
Im going with an AGM to for venting reasons. The trailer has 2 small wall vents , one high ,one low. They're small , but there. So technically its not a "sealed" area. Hopefully its not sealed enough as to provide a safe margin. I'de like to avoid cutting into the wall for additional venting. I'll install some sort of digital voltage meter to monitor the battery level. I was hoping the AGM was imune to venting requirements, ehh.......
This topic is almost as bad as do you drive with propane on
According to my numbers all our TCers should have blown up years ago from just these two issues, forget the fact that we are all running over weight and should have crashed or self destructed.
2002 GMC 2500HD 4x4 4 Door
1992 Northern Lite 9'- 6" Camper
Homemade Cargo Trailer for hauling supplies
Advanced Elements Kayaks
Border Collie Guard Dog
We have been using 3 Deka AGMs for 3 years, They were the most economical we could find. An East Penn Mfg company store in Baltimore gave a nice discount on 3 type 27s. I think some venting is required, I have one mounted in the truck bed in front of the wheel well, in a marine battery box, strapped down. That, fitted in a trailer with minimum vent on a wall or ceiling , I think would do. High amperage battery terminals should always be kept covered to prevent shorting. A fire hazard!
skipbee
2004 F350 Diesel CC SRW 19.5" Rickson W/T 4WD
2005 Lance 1121 well found.
12' Porta-Bote alongside
All that glisters is not gold. All who wander are not lost. See us on YouTube" Living the Lance Life" 3 of 4.
My 2012 Four Wheel Camper came from the factory with two Deka AGM batteries under the seat vented only to the interior of the camper. The batteries are not in a sealed container. No issues what so ever.
2012 Chevy 2500HD LTZ CCSB 4x4 gas
2012 Four Wheel Camper Hawk
2008 Harley Street Glide
Odd that battery boxes have been around for years as they do not provide for venting of gas from the battery. AGM batteries have been used for years in boats with no venting of the compartments.
The greatest risk by far with a RV is with the propane system as the gas is heavier than air. I definitely want those tanks both vented to the outside and sealed so they do not vent into the inside. I was surprised that there is not a propane shutoff switch at the stove so you can bleed the line when shutting off the oven or a burner. No one would ever install propane in a boat without this included in the setup.
I think the Lifeline AGM warning about venting relates to an overcharge condition only and was given probably for liability purposes only.
2011 Wolf Creek 850N/Polar Cub/240w Solar/2-6v Lifeline AGMs/Morningstar Sunsaver w/RM-1 & SureSine-300 Inverter 2011 Ford F-250/6.2L/3.73/Bilsteins/Air Bags/Torklift TD w/Fastguns 2004 Jeep Wrangler/4.0L/5-spd US Navy Ret.
I have 2 - 6v AGM 240 AmpH batteries in the living portion (cabinet) of My Lance and they are vented into the air. Their placement there, does not concern me. The amount of dust that blows in on windy days, confirms my TC is adequately vented. I would not put anything into a steel unventilated cabinet, which produces heat from a chemical exchange which results in a change of air pressure. My batteries (bank in utility trailer) recently registered in excess of 120F while in bulk charge (solar), when outside temperature was 101F. So there are other issues than just off gassing.
elkhornsun wrote: >I was surprised that there is not a propane shutoff switch at the stove so you can bleed the line when shutting off the oven or a burner. No one would ever install propane in a boat without this included in the setup.
Actually I was too, so I did something about this specific issue. It is well known in the RV industry to have “weepers” with certain LP devices, stove/oven combos are one of these. A trip to my local fire station and one of their “sniffers” confirmed there was a minute weeping of propane. A simple Ball Valve install, cured this. If I were to spend the money and replace it, what is to say that I would not be in the same place, after a few years of heavy use? A safer solution gives piece of mind.
Offline
