Undrpsi
Weare, NH
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I'm having almost the exact same issue. I hooked up my 6500 inverter Honda by 1 -30amp and 1-20amp splitter to a 50amp female that I hooked my shore cord into. It ran everything in my coach great. Both AC's, fridge, lights, everything. And then I installed my PI today and I get a open ground E-2 code and no power to the other side. I panicked and shut it down and went through the whole coach looking for a open ground and found nothing. Never gave the splitter at the Gen a thought. I think where I messed up is that I should have used the 4 prong adapter that would work on 240 and just flip the switch to 120. this way I would have a total of 60amps and the 4th wire on the plug to close or complete the ground.Instead I have a 30 amp and a 20 amp adaptor so I have the full 50 amps. Am I thinking right or way off base. Going to call PI's tech line this week but have to wait till I get back home to the coach to o it. Really glad I found this thread. Thanks for the info so far guys!
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larry cad
ohio
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I think PI requires the power source (generator or CG power pole) to have the Neutral and Ground bonded or connected together, otherwise it shows an open ground.
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enblethen
Moses Lake, WA
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Yes, electrical systems that connected through a "Wye" system must have the neutral and ground connected to gether. These are basically the systems in northern North America.
Thos south of the border and locales outside of northern North America base their systems on a "Delta" system. These systems do not have a neutral to ground connection.
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larry cad
ohio
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enblethen wrote:Yes, electrical systems that connected through a "Wye" system must have the neutral and ground connected to gether. These are basically the systems in northern North America.
Thos south of the border and locales outside of northern North America base their systems on a "Delta" system. These systems do not have a neutral to ground connection.
Believe it or not, in our area, we have quite a bit of delta 3 phase service, both 240 and 480. A lot of the 240 has one phase, or "corner" grounded. Makes for interesting wiring because in the 3 phase fused switches, the grounded phase doesn't have a fuse, just a hard jumper bar. Weird!
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wa8yxm
Wherever I happen to park
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Portable generators do not normally bond the neutral to ground, This is normal and it will bother devices that insist said bonding exist, Frankly I would override the power guard (Progressive Dynamics Surge Guard) on this issue.
There is a very good reason to require neutral/ground bonding at the service entrance on a mains-powered system. That is safety.
This same reason is why Generators are NOT so bonded. It is not needed and actually would increase the danger if you did it.
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larry cad
ohio
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wa8yxm wrote:Portable generators do not normally bond the neutral to ground, This is normal and it will bother devices that insist said bonding exist, Frankly I would override the power guard (Progressive Dynamics Surge Guard) on this issue.
There is a very good reason to require neutral/ground bonding at the service entrance on a mains-powered system. That is safety.
This same reason is why Generators are NOT so bonded. It is not needed and actually would increase the danger if you did it.
Flat out wrong! There is a very good reason why some generators are not bonded. It is because some manufacturers anticipate their generators will be used as emergency backup for a true residential electrical system. In a residential system, the ground/neutral bond exists (for safety) in the residential breaker panel.
However, in an RV, there is NO ground/neutral bond, because by design, the breaker panel in an RV is defined as a "sub feed panel", not a main panel. According to National Electrical Code, a sub feed panel is to have an isolated ground and neutral bus because the main panel, located elsewhere, is already bonded. In the campground, the one and only required bond (for safety) is in the campground main panel. Thus, the RV must be a sub panel with no ground/neutral bond.
When a generator takes the place of the campground main panel, the generator must also supply the neutral/ground bond (for safety).
There are significant differences between the breaker panel in a house and the breaker panel in an RV and a generator feeding an RV needs to have a neutral/ground bond (for safety)!
If you operate a generator on your RV without a neutral/ground bond, you do so at your own risk.
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DryCamper11
Hartford
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larry cad wrote:There are significant differences between the breaker panel in a house and the breaker panel in an RV and a generator feeding an RV needs to have a neutral/ground bond (for safety)!
If you operate a generator on your RV without a neutral/ground bond, you do so at your own risk.
I was tempted to say I agree with this 100%, and it's 100% according to the NEC. What it omits to say, however, is that for the neutral and ground to be bonded according to the NEC, one needs to actually connect the "ground" in the RV to the ground outside. In your home, you do this with a grounding rod, but when was the last time you saw a grounding rod connected to the generator compartment of an RV? If you don't ground the "ground" it becomes what I'll call an unground and anyone standing on the real ground and touching your RV becomes the ground rod.
If you are not going to use a grounding rod, then you are not in compliance with the NEC when running a gen and you get into the debate of what's more unsafe - to connect the neutral to unground and let people act as the grounding rod when they touch your RV or to not connect neutral to unground and prevent people from becoming the ground rod. I won't take a position on that, as my gen has neutral/ground bonding that can't be removed.
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Undrpsi
Weare, NH
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So if i'm understanding this right I need to get my neutral and ground bonded on my generator. And by doing this I need to have some part of my coach in good contact with the ground itself. Now I have hydraulic leveling jack that for the most part are in contact with the ground. Will this work? Or if my generator is setting on the ground would this work?
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enblethen
Moses Lake, WA
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You can bond the two on the genset with a dummy plug. Get a male plug and install jumper between the ground and neutral. This will make the rig think it is grounded. Jumper should be as required by the NEC. A #12 should do the job.
The neutral and ground must have a physical connection.
Simply plug the dummy plug into a 15/20 amp receptacle on the genset.
No, stabilizers could be a different potential from the genset so the rig will or may not see the ground.
* This post was
edited 07/16/12 06:27pm by enblethen *
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Wayne Dohnal
Bend, OR.
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For a picture of the "dummy plug" and 9 pages of debate about it, see this thread Bonding A Generator .
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