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Open Roads Forum  >  Travel Trailers  >  Modifications and Accessories

 > Levelling with Scissor Jacks

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JayWalker2009

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Posted: 07/11/12 08:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Billieg2 wrote:

JJBIRISH wrote:

HappyTrails2U2 wrote:

JJBIRISH wrote:


BTW those scissor jacks are very poor lifting jacks that have a lot of free play in them and they to will buckle easily with only modest movement applied to them… the lifting part in their claims are more marketing than fact…


That's why people buy heavy duty ones that are rated for twice what you want to lift. Actually more like 5 or 6 times. And if you have six 7,000 lb. jacks lifting an 8,000 lb trailer that's only 1,333 lbs each which I think even a light duty scissor jack can handle let alone one rated for 7,000 lbs.

As far as calling him silly like you did because you don't agree with him well I don't agree with you either but I won't call you silly. I'll just state what works for me. I've been doing it for 2 years and mine has not fallen apart and neither will his. Most all trailers are supported at four or 6 points on the frame by the springs that attach the axles to the frame and the remainder of the frame is back there bouncing up and down cantilevered out as people go speeding down the highway at 75 or 80 mph over railroad crossing and big bumps in the road without any support and are no worse for the wear.

The way you do it is you jack it where the axles are attached to the frame at the center of the trailer on each side. You don't jack it at each end. Then use the stabilizers at each corner to stabilize it. All the weight is carried by the frame right where it's being supported anyway by the springs.




Wait a second… I didn’t call him silly so lets get that straight right now…
I did say his test and procedures were silly and not well thought out and stand by my comment…

Did the trailer pass the test??? Maybe… did it stress his laminate walls??? I am betting it did… did it do any damage to them??? Could there be one or more stress cracks in the thin aluminum tube superstructure??? Who knows…

Can you properly lift a trailer??? You sure can, I have lifted many myself and put them on concrete blocks… never said you couldn’t…

Those heavy duty scissor jacks are on my trailer, they still are not good jacks and their rating is a fantasy… they can easily bend and collapse with any fore or aft movement…

I know because I was sitting under a friends awning at night when the trailer seemed to just fall… but it didn’t just fall, one of the scissor jacks just left go and ended up being bent like a pretzel… is it likely to happen??? I guess not… does it happen, you bet, I witnessed it… this trailer was set for 4 or more weeks when this happen with no indication of failing until then…


So your friends STOCK jacks didn't hold up and now you are an expert?
So many experts on this forum.....


JJBirrish is one of those members that I always see very good, solid advice coming from. I consider him pretty close to an expert on here as he always replies with facts and logic.

I have not seen him ever flame anyone here, and he didn't flame the OP. Saying what he did was stupid (or silly to be exact) isn't the same as calling the OP stupid.

Billieg2

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Posted: 07/11/12 10:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator



JJBirrish is one of those members that I always see very good, solid advice coming from. I consider him pretty close to an expert on here as he always replies with facts and logic.

I have not seen him ever flame anyone here, and he didn't flame the OP. Saying what he did was stupid (or silly to be exact) isn't the same as calling the OP stupid.

Well that makes me feel much better.

First, he doesn't know what type frame the jacks are used on whether it is a 10" single frame or twin 16" frames so how does he "know" what will happen?

Second, the frame is jacked by 7k plus jacks more than enough to lift the frame safely.

Third, it usually takes under 3" to level a side far from lifting the wheels off the ground or far enough to "bend" a frame.

I see so much BS on forums that new RVers take as truth and it's just not right. Everyday people get the Bigfoot system installed on their 5th wheels and believe me the system is installed on the frame. The only difference between the Bigfoot system is the auto lift function because each of those jacks are just 3,500 lb jacks half the specs of a 7k scissor jack.

I installed the scissor 7,500 lb jacks on my unit and they work very well thank you without any frame bending. Unless your friend JJBirrish is an engineer for RV frames then he should express his "opinions" as opinions and not fact.

The people who installed them and use them have much more information than someone who saw his friends trailer malfunction with stock jacks.


In my life I've spent my money on women, booze, Harleys, guitars and traveling, the rest I just wasted...

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Posted: 07/12/12 06:32am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I can't imagine going directly against the instructions published by the manufacturer in an attempt to satisfy my curiosity about something so critical as a trailer frame. I have no trouble just driving up on a board or leveling block and the trailer will be supported at the stress points designed for the purpose.

JJBIRISH

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Posted: 07/12/12 06:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Billieg2 wrote:



JJBirrish is one of those members that I always see very good, solid advice coming from. I consider him pretty close to an expert on here as he always replies with facts and logic.

I have not seen him ever flame anyone here, and he didn't flame the OP. Saying what he did was stupid (or silly to be exact) isn't the same as calling the OP stupid.

Well that makes me feel much better.

First, he doesn't know what type frame the jacks are used on whether it is a 10" single frame or twin 16" frames so how does he "know" what will happen?

You sir are only atmmpting to create a argument by blowing smoke and mirriors…
First of all I never addressed you or your toy hauler 5er frame…
My reference was to light weight TTs, but most likely would apply to your trailers stacked frame to…


Second, the frame is jacked by 7k plus jacks more than enough to lift the frame safely.


Your frame is jacked by a 7k jacks and mine by a 5k jacks more than enough for both trailers… both mine and my friends are BAL sassier jacks…
I still believe both are poor jacks that lift without stability… I still believe the lift rating they have is a fantasy on their part…


Third, it usually takes under 3" to level a side far from lifting the wheels off the ground or far enough to "bend" a frame.

Not sure what your point is… the op was talking about the frame strength as proven by his corner loft test… I don’t have a problem lifting the trailer by the frame near the axle as suggested by the mfg… but the normal leveling process is so easy I don’t see the point


I see so much BS on forums that new RVers take as truth and it's just not right. Everyday people get the Bigfoot system installed on their 5th wheels and believe me the system is installed on the frame. The only difference between the Bigfoot system is the auto lift function because each of those jacks are just 3,500 lb jacks half the specs of a 7k scissor jack.

Educate me on the Bigfoot and its installation and fitment on TTs or 5ers for that matter… I would be shocked to hear that the Bigfoot is just mounted to the flange of a trailer I beam…

Just to keep new Rvers from taking this as truth or bs maybe you could post a link to the simple bolt or weld to the frame flange installation process for these auto levelers …



I installed the scissor 7,500 lb jacks on my unit and they work very well thank you without any frame bending. Unless your friend JJBirrish is an engineer for RV frames then he should express his "opinions" as opinions and not fact.

The people who installed them and use them have much more information than someone who saw his friends trailer malfunction with stock jacks.

I have installed and used what I have on many trailers, my friend installed his, so tell me what is so different about your unnamed aftermarket jacks…

If you want to discuss your toy hauler triple stacked frame lets do that in a different thread where it might make sense…

Disclaimer: I am not a expert or a engineer… I have always had a job with my name on my shirt… all expressions and comments are my opinions based on my limited knowledge and 40+ years of experience of camping and RVing… everything I say comes with no expressed or implied warrantee of any kind, but they are worth every cent you paid for them…








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greende

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Posted: 07/12/12 08:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I don't mean to feed the flame war here but...I recently added the larger scissors jacks to my 5er. and BAL cleaarly states that they are not to be used to jack up the trailer. I had a scissors jack collapse on me on my Cougar TT a few years ago. I agree with the above posters that say they allow too much lateral movement to be safely used to jack the entire unit up. The Bigfoot and Lippert jacking systems may be utilizing the same points on the frame to level the unit but their design is different and their attachment is such that they do not rock as much. The reason so many of us put Steadyfast or JT Strongarm stabilizer bars on our rigs is because of the movement allowed by the scissors jacks. Auto levelers don't need them because of their inhehent design. This is just my opinion but is one born of 40+ yrs of experience.YMMV


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Posted: 07/12/12 09:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JJBIRISH wrote:


[COLOR=#ff0000]Disclaimer: I am not a expert or a engineer… I have always had a job with my name on my shirt… all expressions and comments are my opinions based on my limited knowledge and 40+ years of experience of camping and RVing… everything I say comes with no expressed or implied warrantee of any kind, but they are worth every cent you paid for them…




Ok News, calm down.

I will say it, the test was stupid. Slightly lifting the TT with 6 jacks to level is not stupid. Will the 6 over-rated jacks fail? Probably not. Could they? Sure, anything can fail. Does the op using 6 over-rated jacks harm anyone? No, unless someone is hanging out under his trailer. Do what you want with your trailer, I sure wouldn't want to own it after your test though. These are my opinions and I willing to take the whoopin that comes along with it.

BurbMan

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Posted: 07/12/12 09:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have parked on some sites that were so unlevel that I didn't have enough travel in the tongue jack to level the TT. So I ran the tongue jack up all the way, then dropped the front stabilizers and used those to hold the front of the TT while I retracted the tongue jack, added blocks under it, and re-extended. Important to have the wheels chocked to keep the stab jacks from folding under.

Here was one such site at a KOA:





JayWalker2009

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Posted: 07/12/12 11:32am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

by billieg2

JJBirrish is one of those members that I always see very good, solid advice coming from. I consider him pretty close to an expert on here as he always replies with facts and logic.

I have not seen him ever flame anyone here, and he didn't flame the OP. Saying what he did was stupid (or silly to be exact) isn't the same as calling the OP stupid.

Well that makes me feel much better.

First, he doesn't know what type frame the jacks are used on whether it is a 10" single frame or twin 16" frames so how does he "know" what will happen?

Second, the frame is jacked by 7k plus jacks more than enough to lift the frame safely.

Third, it usually takes under 3" to level a side far from lifting the wheels off the ground or far enough to "bend" a frame.

I see so much BS on forums that new RVers take as truth and it's just not right. Everyday people get the Bigfoot system installed on their 5th wheels and believe me the system is installed on the frame. The only difference between the Bigfoot system is the auto lift function because each of those jacks are just 3,500 lb jacks half the specs of a 7k scissor jack.

I installed the scissor 7,500 lb jacks on my unit and they work very well thank you without any frame bending. Unless your friend JJBirrish is an engineer for RV frames then he should express his "opinions" as opinions and not fact.

The people who installed them and use them have much more information than someone who saw his friends trailer malfunction with stock jacks.


It would be very helpful for you to learn to use the quote feature so that people can distinguish your words from others ....you are blending in my post with yours so that most other readers are not going to be able to tell where one starts, the other ends.

I sure hope I am never the unsuspecting victim that buys yours or the OP's TTs that you messed around with. We are all fully entitled to call this test stupid, because that is exactly what I think it is. He probably cuts off his nose to spite his face too, but he can knock himself out. I just, again, hope to never be the sucker who purchases one of these TTs that have had stabilziing jacks being used for leveling to this degree that you and the OP are using them for.

In closing, I will be much more apt to follow JJBirrish's advice with his many posts here that have proven to be extremely spot on and his 40+ years vs your two year experience in RV'ing (per your profile, RV'ing since 2010). I write this post for the benefit of newbies who might happen onto this thread and think that leveling with stabilizers is quite okay...if they want to do it, fine, its their unit, but they should know that isn't what stabilizers are for, and it is a big mistake that most newbies make. Even when I first started over 13 years ago I thought you could level with them until i heard that "Creek" underneath that sure didn't sound right. The internet was not as readily used back then, sure wish I had RV.Net in those earlier days. Even the heavier duty jacks mention they are used for stabilization. A tad bit of lifting? Maybe that is fine. But I woulnd't make it a practice to use them for leveling, and certainly not for jacking the TT up, that is what leveling blocks are for.

JJBIRISH

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Posted: 07/12/12 01:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JayWalker2009,
thanks for the supportive words… though its not necessary and you shouldn’t have to take his abuse for his dislike of me…
His accusation that we are friends made in a derogatory manor, does require a response…
while we don’t always agree on some issues, based on the little we know about each other and that is limited to RV.net, I would be proud to be known as your friend… even knowing in the next thread we may have very different views and opinions…

My post are never made for their popularity, but I sincerely hope no matter how controversial they may be some times they are well thought out and explained in detail… where sometimes my ability may fall short…

Finding agreement is nice but isn’t as important as the exchange…
some don’t like the exchange and let it be known but it might cause others to think and investigate the differences and become better informed than I because of it… and that’s great…

You are unfortunately correct that much of what I post is due to the many mistakes I have made before there were venues like this on the internet… other beliefs were created through research spurred by comments made here that I might have disagreed with at the time… seems like a good deal to me, learn by sharing ideas… even bad ideas…

HappyTrails2U2

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Posted: 07/12/12 01:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Next time you guys have a flat it's best you don't use that stabilizer that the car manufacture put in your trunk that they call a jack to jack up your car with or it might fall on you and then people will call you stupid for using a stabilizer for a jack.


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