hoopers wrote: So how come there are so few diesel autos on the road here in the USA?...excluding trucks. What 1 in 20, 1 in 50, 1 in 100 diesel cars per gasoline? Ford sells all sorts of diesel autos in Europe, but NONE here. GM sells (Opel) all sorts of diesel autos in Europe, but none currently I know of.
When Chrysler tried to sell a diesel SUV, it didn't sell well. Ditto for other efforts.
And why is diesel fuel more expensive than gasoline here?
High world demand for diesel means US exports diesel, and import gasoline.
Diesel is 10% cheaper than gasoline in Europe, just like it used to be here.
Product of differences in taxes, as well as a few other twists, like a different petroleum stock base that makes it easier to make high quality diesel than the aromatics rich petroleum stock here.
Tell me what is different.
And sorry, I would be real weary about buying a new diesel auto with the high pressure fuel pump issues. (I own a 2011 chevy diesel by the way).
I just look at the bottom line and wonder why.
Many many reasons for rejection of diesels by customers.
Honda had it all ready to go, and called it quits before it launched.
Toyota completely exited diesel in car market, going for hybrids instead.
Nissan is all gasoline fueled...
GM gave up decades ago.
Ford.. ditto..
Chrysler tried... got burned.
All of this is before clean diesel became a big deal.
With clean diesel, and North American standards tougher in NOx than EU, it is real hard to make it economic to do a clean diesel car here.
The VW that does it -- is a small volume niche car.
hoopers wrote: Diesel fuel is a much more abundant fuel and therefore should be cheaper to use than Gasoline. If it isn't, there is something basically wrong. How much pollution goes into producing gasoline vs diesel?
It is the same poor argument used to justify corn produced bio-fuels. Or hybrid cars that cost so much to buy upfront and the pollution caused to produce and dispose of hybrid batteries. Sometimes the simplest solution overall is the best. I just don't agree with our Govt (EPA) mandating to the free market what is best. That usually ends up with the worst possible outcome.
hoopers wrote: I've been on hiatus for awhile, but all I can say is the EPA has done more overall damage to our environment than they have ever saved.
I was in Europe for awhile and at least a third of the cars over there are diesel these days, all getting great MPG and power. I saw diesel after diesel cruising down the autobahn at over 100 mph.
I rented a tiny little Renault diesel car...it cruised effortlessly at 80 mph and achieved great MPG at the same time. There was no black smoke or anything coming out the back tailpipe.
What a joke the EPA diesel standards are. With the mandated dry diesel fuel and the restrictive standards, what car maker will want to clear the EPA hurdles of trying to qualify a high mpg diesel auto? So instead, we continue to produce lower mpg gasoline autos producing much more emissions. They need to look at emissions per mile driven, or some such formula. At least that is the way it seems on the surface.
(sigh) SO much misinformation, all in one place.
Firstly, you underestimated the percentage of diesels on the road in Europe. New car sales are well over 50% diesels all over Europe. Secondly, the reason you don't see that many diesels on US roads has nothing whatever to do with the EPA. It is due to the various automakers perceptions that the US public won't buy diesels. And mostly they've been right.Thirdly, the car makers that have brought diesels to the US market, indeed currently offer diesel cars here, include BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audi, and Fiat/Chrysler is about to bring diesel Jeeps back for 2013.
Now about the EPA. Do you not understand that the EPA and its regulations are responsible for your still being able to even breathe in most of the US today? In 1967, when the first EPA standards went into effect, Los Angeles (among other cities) had so many smog days annually that the place was almost uninhabitable, especially for anyone with asthma or other breathing problems.
I can tell you've never been to China, my friend, where the burning of coal casts an almost permanent gray cover over the land. I have been there in 2006, for two weeks, and I saw blue sky for a whopping 3 hours one afternoon. Your enmity toward the EPA is highly misddirected.
For a start, EU standardized on 10ppm sulfur diesel.
North America is on 15ppm diesel.
Again you failed to produce a valid excuse for an answer... a difference a 5 ppm woopie!! You couldn't find a decent answer at Wiki or are you getting overwhelmed trying to be the expert on everything?
For folks who might may not understand ppm = parts per million, to get a picture of this measurement here is a example take a regular 6' long bath tub fill it full of Gin then add an eyedropper of Vermouth = 1 ppm or one very wet Martini. add 5 drops of Vermouth to the tub of Gin and you get 5 ppm or a somewhat dryer Martini. So you get an idea of how much diesel you have to consume or how much more sulphur there is, to make any difference.
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Now about the EPA. Do you not understand that the EPA and its regulations are responsible for your still being able to even breathe in most of the US today? In 1967, when the first EPA standards went into effect, Los Angeles (among other cities) had so many smog days annually that the place was almost uninhabitable, especially for anyone with asthma or other breathing problems.
I might mention there is a broad, bipartisan consensus that EPA regs have done a lot to keep American beautiful.
I can tell you've never been to China, my friend, where the burning of coal casts an almost permanent gray cover over the land. I have been there in 2006, for two weeks, and I saw blue sky for a whopping 3 hours one afternoon. Your enmity toward the EPA is highly misddirected.
China’s massive ‘pollution cloud’ can be seen from space
hoopers wrote: I've been on hiatus for awhile, but all I can say is the EPA has done more overall damage to our environment than they have ever saved.
I was in Europe for awhile and at least a third of the cars over there are diesel these days, all getting great MPG and power. I saw diesel after diesel cruising down the autobahn at over 100 mph.
I rented a tiny little Renault diesel car...it cruised effortlessly at 80 mph and achieved great MPG at the same time. There was no black smoke or anything coming out the back tailpipe.
What a joke the EPA diesel standards are. With the mandated dry diesel fuel and the restrictive standards, what car maker will want to clear the EPA hurdles of trying to qualify a high mpg diesel auto? So instead, we continue to produce lower mpg gasoline autos producing much more emissions. They need to look at emissions per mile driven, or some such formula. At least that is the way it seems on the surface.
Just a couple ofcomments, you say you have a 2011 Chevy diesel? You stated the Renault had no black smoke or anything coming out of the tailpipe..I have no black smoke coming out of my 2010 Dodge Diesel tailpipe..I never smell diesel unless I'm standing at the pump fueling up the truck...If you have black smoke coming out of your 2011 Chevy Duramax, I'd get it to a shop, the newer diesels don't smoke or even smell of diesel, unless one has a tune on the truck or have removed some of the emissions equipment. EGR, DPF and now DEF are all part of the EPA answer to emissions control on diesel trucks. Most don't even seem to care for that...me, I just buy them, keep them stock and, drive them and keep up the maintanance per manufactuers recommendations..
I will add, I'm glad we don't have people crusing the interstate systems at 100 mph....don't see how that can be cost efficient as far as mpg goes...if they're get 80 mpg at 100 mph, (find that hard to believe), then they could do better just running 70....Just because they do some things a certain way in Europe doesn't make it right for us.....look at China....you can keep it, along with Europe also..
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Quote: Out of a 42 gallon barrel of oil, 44% is gasoline, 28% is distillates, which include home heating oil and diesel, 9% is Jet fuel.
Ah come on now mister P. Eng... you ought to know better! You of all people.
Depending on the origin of the crude oil, the break down per bbl to gasoline, fuel oil (diesel), kerosene (jet fuel), heavy products (lubes, grease...)and naphthas and how modern the refineries are can vary greatly. Even WTI or Brent Sea oil as sweet and light as they are can clog up refineries with their sulphur content.
The major damage to the diesel market in the US came from General Motors when they decided they could convert gas engines to diesels back in the 80's. It was a (predictable) disaster and soured the general public on diesels.
The other factor favoring diesels in Europe is the high cost of gasoline. primarily due to taxes. Just think how much better off we would be here if the US had put in a sliding scale tax when gas prices were high that kept the prices up when the market came back down. Go ahead and flame me, but think about it: we would have more tax income to support our crumbling infrastructure and higher efficiency cars. Oh well.
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