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 > Australian Winnebago has to change name

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mumkin

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Posted: 08/01/12 08:40am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

NewsW wrote:

Haven't we have had enough discussion of these Australian thieves?

Feel free not to read or post on a thread if you don't like it. You seem to be unaware that there is not a rule here that one must post repeatedly on every single thread.


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RobertRyan

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Posted: 08/01/12 02:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Burlmart wrote:

Even the Winnie Via Class A on a Sprinter is a Euro copy, as are all the Sprinter Cs

Basically correct of a "Integrated Class A" as they call them there. I could provide more information on the Australian dispute but a Court Case is still ongoing and a appeal is pending.

* This post was edited 08/01/12 04:01pm by RobertRyan *

RobertRyan

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Posted: 08/01/12 04:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Very similar indeed



burlmart

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Posted: 08/02/12 04:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Robert

If you have any influence on the AU RV scene, have someone consider the idea of a new retro production of the highly successful and stylish GMC low-profile (thanks, FWD) MH of the US's past.

With AU and US markets in mind, a reversible left-right floorplan could be fore-planned. Ship 'em up the Mississippi to Iowa and show US-Winnie how modern RVing is done.




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RobertRyan

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Posted: 08/02/12 05:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

burlmart wrote:

Robert

If you have any influence on the AU RV scene, have someone consider the idea of a new retro production of the highly successful and stylish GMC low-profile (thanks, FWD) MH of the US's past.

With AU and US markets in mind, a reversible left-right floorplan could be fore-planned. Ship 'em up the Mississippi to Iowa and show US-Winnie how modern RVing is done.

My Influence, is showing peoples reaction here to some of of our local products on the Caravans forum and hope someone takes notice.. I have recently posted comments to that effect on the Caravanners Forum
http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27636&p=424437#p424437

Quote:


Re: The Cross-over campers

Postby Robert Ryan » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:39 pm

#517 wroteMr Ryan, i have actually been reading some of your posts, the Trayon seems a real hit on the US forums. They would probably be wanting the larger Trayon 2100 for their ford f-trucks and chevy silverado's


I suggested to several exhibitors at the last Sydney Caravan and Motorhome show, that would be in everyone's interest to do a "trade show" like ARB have organized in the US. I get the impression that a lot of local builders are unaware of the overwhelming positive reaction to their products in the US/Canada. They have nothing like Crossovers etc in NA.

Robert Ryan

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Re: The Cross-over campers

Postby Robert Ryan » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:47 pm
From the Forums
http://forums.woodalls.com/Index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/26092351/gotomsg/26122471.cfm#26122471

A Lot of interest from US campers on that forum. I tend to wonder why other Australian companies do not show off their wares in the US? About 170(my tally) of strictly off road manufacturers, not all folding trailers.


Most of the folks on that forum (myself included) would love to have more choices in an offroad capable trailer like available in Australia. A lower price point would be nice and the shipping is way high.

If you notice most of the members there are using former military or homebuilt type trailers with roof top tents as thats about as close as they can get.



burlmart

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Posted: 08/02/12 06:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Like this

mumkin

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Posted: 08/02/12 08:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Just yesterday I saw a Hymer... about 25 foot... here in North Dakota. I think I also had a glance of it a week or so ago, but it was gone before I could get a good look. The steering wheel was on the US side, so it probably comes from Germany. Didn't have time to focus on the plates.

With any luck, perhaps I can catch him before he leaves town.

RobertRyan

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Posted: 08/02/12 02:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

burlmart wrote:

Like this

There are roughly 85-90 Caravan Makers(12 5th Wheeler), 150 Camper Trailer makers basic to very elaborate(Trayon is in between, more an unconventional Truck Camper) and about 12 Motorhome manufacturers(Most Class C, about 3 Class B), then you have people doing Coach and Bus Conversions.
An expensive Camper Trailer
http://www.ultimateoffroadcampers.com.au/our-products/nautilus/

A Kimberley Kamper in the US

http://bgarland.smugmug.com/Camping-Trip........2011/i-Lp8v8Jx/0/L/Toroweap-2011-2-L.jpg


Front Page of US RV magazine.
http://image.rvmagonline.com/f/features/........8409817+pheader_460x1000/MITS-120033.jpg

RobertRyan

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Posted: 08/02/12 02:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Inside the Hayman from Talvor Motorhomes. A VW based Class C


RobertRyan

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Posted: 08/06/12 04:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

More on the case from a well known Law Firm in Australia. Interesting aspects of the case.
Quote:

Winnebago Industries, Inc (Winnebago) is a popular American manufacturer of motor homes (commonly known as RVs in the US). Knott Investments (Knott) had been using the Winnebago name to manufacture motor homes in Australia since 1982 without any official endorsement from the American company.

The Federal Court recently held in Winnebago v Knott Investments that Knott Investments had breached a number of laws by using the Winnebago brand name in the way it did. The Court has ordered Knott to rebrand its products with a different brand name.

The facts

Winnebago began manufacturing RVs in the US in 1966 for the American market. It has since exported RVs to other countries around the world, but has never exported any products to Australia.

Bruce Binns, principal of Knott, began manufacturing RVs in Australia in the mid 1960s. In 1982, Knott started using the Winnebago name on its own RVs. Not only was the name itself used on Knott's motor homes, but the Winnebago logo was also copied. Knott also represented in some advertising material that its products were related to products of the American company.

Passing off

Justice Foster held that Knott's actions amounted to passing off, as Knott was using the reputation of the Winnebago brand name to sell its own goods in Australia.

The contentious element was whether Winnebago had a sufficient reputation in Australia when Knott started manufacturing motor homes using the name in 1982. (If Winnebago did not have sufficient reputation in Australia, then it would not have been passing off for Knott to use the same brand name and logo.) At that time, Winnebago did not sell any products in Australia, nor did it conduct any advertising in Australia. Nonetheless, it was held that even in 1982, enough Australians would have been aware of Winnebago from their overseas travels that there would be at least some reputation in the Winnebago brand in Australia.

Further, the fact that Knott had chosen Winnebago as its own brand name indicated that it did, in fact, want to trade off the back of the American company's reputation. Under cross examination, Mr Binns claimed (somewhat incredulously) that he chose the name 'Winnebago' for his company's products because two other names (Fleetwood and Coachmen) were already being used in Australia by other companies manufacturing motor homes, and Winnebago was the only remaining name he could think of.

The Court ultimately rejected this evidence, and held that the only credible reason why Mr Binns would have chosen the Winnebago name was to appropriate the reputation of the American brand, to the extent that this reputation existed in Australia. Justice Foster found that, 'No doubt Bruce Binns thought that, by taking such action, he could keep Winnebago out of Australia or, at the very least, hold it to ransom and extort a significant payment from Winnebago. In the meantime, he and Knott would be able to trade off its reputation.'

Trade marks

In 1973, Winnebago tried to register the Winnebago logo as a trade mark in Australia. The application was refused on the grounds that a geographic name could not be registered as a trade mark. However, in 1997, Knott succeeded in registering the trade mark, as the way in which the examiner applied the Trade Marks Act had changed.

Under section 88 of the Trade Marks Act, this registration could be removed because the use of the trade mark was contrary to law. In the present case, the use of the trade mark amounted to passing off, so the Federal Court ordered that Knott's trade mark be removed from the register.

CopyrightAlthough Winnebago tried to claim that the brand name was protected by copyright, this ground was rejected by the Court. A single word or a short phrase will almost never attract copyright protection. Further, although the logo itself was drawn in a stylised way, it was mainly comprised of elements made from existing typefaces.

Lessons

At first glance, it would seem that this was a fairly clear cut case of appropriation of a famous overseas brand name. However, the fact that this case ended in costly litigation holds some lessons.

The case hinged largely on the evidence of Winnebago's Australian reputation in 1982, when Knott first used the brand name. Although Winnebago would certainly be said to have a reputation now, its status in 1982 was far less clear. Earlier action against Knott may have saved Winnebago the trouble of having to find evidence about its reputation dating back 30 years.

Similarly, Winnebago could potentially have more vigorously opposed Knott's 1997 application for the Winnebago trade mark.

However, a problem for Winnebago is that it would need to actually sell products in order to sustain a trade mark registration - and it cited the fact that it did not want to export its products to Australia as a key reason why it did not take decisive action against Knott earlier. Therefore Winnebago faced a rather difficult problem: on the one hand, it faced evidential issues because it had waited so long to pursue Knott over the appropriation of its brand; but on the other hand, its ability to obtain rights itself was weakened by the fact that it was not actively selling its products in Australia.

Ultimately, this case highlights the difficulty of maintaining and defending brand reputation in a jurisdiction where a company is not active.


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