I had started another thread in the Hybrid sub-forum that strayed from my original question and ended up talking about my minivan's LACK of capabilities to tow pretty much anything other than a pop-up.
I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss (hopefully in an intelligent manner) the specifics of towing a TT (or HTT) with my minivan.
So, to start, let's look at the vehicle:
2008 Dodge Grand Caravan ~ 105,000 km
3.8L engine (I've found multiple power figures for this engine, from 195 up to 215 HP, the torque figure seems to be pretty consistent at 230 ft-lbs though.)
Currently has a brake controller and class III hitch installed on it, and these components were installed just last summer (2011).
When installing the above, I found out the van already had a factory tranny cooler. It did not come with the factory tow package; no wiring, no hitch, yet did have the cooler on the transmission. Strange, but I'll take it.
Prior to actually buying a trailer, I will have some "helper springs" installed such as the Timbren style that replace the factory bumpstops on the rear axle and help to control heavy loads.
I will also use a weight distributing hitch with the trailer.
Capacities from:
http://www.media.chrysler.com/dcxms/assets/specs/2008DGCaravan_Specifications.pdf
GCWR 8700 LBS
Curb Weight 4483 lbs - distribution F56% (2510) R44% (1972)
Tow Rating 3600lbs
Note about the tow rating I found elsewhere - that 3600 lb figure is based on 2 adults and their luggage. Each person is estimated to weigh 150 lbs. For 3-5 passengers, the rating goes down to 3200 lbs. So it seems that Dodge expects each person to being about 50 lbs of luggage.
For my family, it will be myself (about 225) my wife (not divulging that number based on my own personal safety!) and my two young boys, 4yo (36 lbs) and 6 months. (19 lbs)
I'm putting up our personal weights to illustrate that despite the fact that there will be 4 passengers, we certainly don't fall into what Dodge has classified as a "normal" 4 people. Basically I'm saying I've got a couple hundred extra pounds available, above that 3200 mark.
One other spec I found was that you're not supposed to tow anything with a frontal area greater than 32 square feet. The only thing I can think of this affecting is the ability to go faster on the highway, or straining the engine/transmission.
I have not been able to find axle ratings for the van yet - maybe some others have greater powers than I with the Google and can find those numbers for me???
Anyways, after posting all of that above, I pose the question:
Why can't (or shouldn't) I tow a TT with a dry weight rating of 2500 lbs?
Don't have any info except last year we saw a guy that had his converted into a pretty good looking Class B type van and was getting good milage and was on tour of US, one end to the other.
(To cheap to buy new)
1990 37 ft 5th wheel that hasn't moved since 1996 (our best home)
1997 33 ft trailer (winter home in much warmer climate)
2005 25 ft M/H (our "stand up B" for traveling)
Well I wont say you CANT tow a small TT or HTT with your minivan. But consider this. The transmission in a minivan or most cars is not as strong as a trucks transmission. Also the final drive (gear ratio) is likely kinda high. (Most minivans are designed as vacation wagons to travel many miles on the open roads). That means they are built for "gas mileage", in order to accomplish that, final drive ratios are generally high, and engine torque is usually kinda low. In order to pull a trailer good, you need "LOW" gear ratio, and HIGH torque.
Now with the suspension.
Helper springs will help the rear for sure, but they will not give you bigger spindles, bearings, shocks, sway bar, brakes, ETC. A nice pickup will give you everything I just mentioned.
Can you tow something big with something little? --- SURE!!!!
I am just saying when the road is smooth and all is nice, you will do fine. Should the road get twisty quick, or a fast swerve is needed, you just might lose control yourself.
I understand you like your van, but IMO a truck/SUV/full size van will do the job better and safer. I would either buy a truck, or buy a PUP if it was me.
Tim-DW(Kathy)
12 Chevy Sonic DD, 03 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE, 95 Palamino PUP When I grow up I want to be retired.. THEN I WONT HAVE TO GROW UP AT ALL!!!!
I had a 2008 Town and Country Limited, 4.0L 6-spd. Really liked the powertrain. But I would not tow even my 1000 pounds landscape trailer with it. Far too soft suspension. Air bags are available for the rear which will help, but it needs better dampening too.
Without the tow package, the tow rating is only 2000 pounds and GCWR 7000 pounds with 22sq ft frontal area. With the towing package, 3600 pounds tow rating, 9000 pounds GCWR, and 40sq ft of frontal area.
I would stick to teardrops, hi-low, or popups.
A & A parents of DD 2005, DS1 2007, DS2 2009 2011 Suburban 2500 6.0L 3.73 pulling 2011 Heartland North Trail 28BRS 2012 VW Passat TDI
Do you REALLY want to tow around a completely empty trailer? What you need to consider is whether or not you can tow a trailer that weighs (it's actual weight) because everyone likes to take a FEW things with them. If you don't know the ACTUAL weight then use the GVWR which should be on a DOT safety plate attached to the trailer. You can probably pick up a Dodge Towing Guide for your year of vehicle from your dealer so you have the actual numbers.
Good luck / Skip
2011 F-150 HD Ecoboost 3.5 V6. 2550 payload, 17,100 GCVWR - 2004 F-150 HD (Traded after 80,000 towing miles) 2007 Rockwood 8314SS 34' travel trailer
US Govt survey shows three out of four people make up 75% of the total population
The Adam Blaster wrote: I had started another thread in the Hybrid sub-forum that strayed from my original question and ended up talking about my minivan's LACK of capabilities to tow pretty much anything other than a pop-up.
I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss (hopefully in an intelligent manner) the specifics of towing a TT (or HTT) with my minivan.
So, to start, let's look at the vehicle:
2008 Dodge Grand Caravan ~ 105,000 km
3.8L engine (I've found multiple power figures for this engine, from 195 up to 215 HP, the torque figure seems to be pretty consistent at 230 ft-lbs though.)
Currently has a brake controller and class III hitch installed on it, and these components were installed just last summer (2011).
When installing the above, I found out the van already had a factory tranny cooler. It did not come with the factory tow package; no wiring, no hitch, yet did have the cooler on the transmission. Strange, but I'll take it.
Prior to actually buying a trailer, I will have some "helper springs" installed such as the Timbren style that replace the factory bumpstops on the rear axle and help to control heavy loads.
I will also use a weight distributing hitch with the trailer.
Capacities from:
http://www.media.chrysler.com/dcxms/assets/specs/2008DGCaravan_Specifications.pdf
GCWR 8700 LBS
Curb Weight 4483 lbs - distribution F56% (2510) R44% (1972)
Tow Rating 3600lbs
Note about the tow rating I found elsewhere - that 3600 lb figure is based on 2 adults and their luggage. Each person is estimated to weigh 150 lbs. For 3-5 passengers, the rating goes down to 3200 lbs. So it seems that Dodge expects each person to being about 50 lbs of luggage.
For my family, it will be myself (about 225) my wife (not divulging that number based on my own personal safety!) and my two young boys, 4yo (36 lbs) and 6 months. (19 lbs)
I'm putting up our personal weights to illustrate that despite the fact that there will be 4 passengers, we certainly don't fall into what Dodge has classified as a "normal" 4 people. Basically I'm saying I've got a couple hundred extra pounds available, above that 3200 mark.
One other spec I found was that you're not supposed to tow anything with a frontal area greater than 32 square feet. The only thing I can think of this affecting is the ability to go faster on the highway, or straining the engine/transmission.
I have not been able to find axle ratings for the van yet - maybe some others have greater powers than I with the Google and can find those numbers for me???
Anyways, after posting all of that above, I pose the question:
Why can't (or shouldn't) I tow a TT with a dry weight rating of 2500 lbs?
Adam Blaster, I particpated in the forum on Hybrids that you started. It strayed a little, but not too much. I beleive you did not hear the answers that you wanted to hear. The Caravan is not meant for towing a HTT. A PUP is fine, but anything bigger and you are exceeding all ratings.
I beleive you will hear the same thing here. You need to face the facts that towing a HTT with multiple kids and a dog is not a wise choice.
2003 Coleman Carmel(gone
2008 Starcraft Antigua 195CK
2011 Ford Explorer XLT w/ tow package
About fifteen years ago, I met a woman who had a Dodge mini-van and a 7,000 lb. trailer. She was selling the trailer because she was tired of replacing transmissions in the mini-van.
Paul
Extra Class Ham Radio operator - K9ERG (since 1956)
Retired Electronics Engineer and Antenna Designer
Was a campground host at IBSP (2006-2010) - now retired.
Single - Full-timer
2005 Four Winds 29Q
1982 6.2L Diesel Suburban 1500
The Adam Blaster wrote: I had started another thread in the Hybrid sub-forum that strayed from my original question and ended up talking about my minivan's LACK of capabilities to tow pretty much anything other than a pop-up.
I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss (hopefully in an intelligent manner) the specifics of towing a TT (or HTT) with my minivan.
So, to start, let's look at the vehicle:
2008 Dodge Grand Caravan ~ 105,000 km
3.8L engine (I've found multiple power figures for this engine, from 195 up to 215 HP, the torque figure seems to be pretty consistent at 230 ft-lbs though.)
Currently has a brake controller and class III hitch installed on it, and these components were installed just last summer (2011).
When installing the above, I found out the van already had a factory tranny cooler. It did not come with the factory tow package; no wiring, no hitch, yet did have the cooler on the transmission. Strange, but I'll take it.
Prior to actually buying a trailer, I will have some "helper springs" installed such as the Timbren style that replace the factory bumpstops on the rear axle and help to control heavy loads.
I will also use a weight distributing hitch with the trailer.
Capacities from:
http://www.media.chrysler.com/dcxms/assets/specs/2008DGCaravan_Specifications.pdf
GCWR 8700 LBS
Curb Weight 4483 lbs - distribution F56% (2510) R44% (1972)
Tow Rating 3600lbs
Note about the tow rating I found elsewhere - that 3600 lb figure is based on 2 adults and their luggage. Each person is estimated to weigh 150 lbs. For 3-5 passengers, the rating goes down to 3200 lbs. So it seems that Dodge expects each person to being about 50 lbs of luggage.
For my family, it will be myself (about 225) my wife (not divulging that number based on my own personal safety!) and my two young boys, 4yo (36 lbs) and 6 months. (19 lbs)
I'm putting up our personal weights to illustrate that despite the fact that there will be 4 passengers, we certainly don't fall into what Dodge has classified as a "normal" 4 people. Basically I'm saying I've got a couple hundred extra pounds available, above that 3200 mark.
One other spec I found was that you're not supposed to tow anything with a frontal area greater than 32 square feet. The only thing I can think of this affecting is the ability to go faster on the highway, or straining the engine/transmission.
I have not been able to find axle ratings for the van yet - maybe some others have greater powers than I with the Google and can find those numbers for me???
Anyways, after posting all of that above, I pose the question:
Why can't (or shouldn't) I tow a TT with a dry weight rating of 2500 lbs?
Adam Blaster, I particpated in the forum on Hybrids that you started. It strayed a little, but not too much. I beleive you did not hear the answers that you wanted to hear. The Caravan is not meant for towing a HTT. A PUP is fine, but anything bigger and you are exceeding all ratings.
I beleive you will hear the same thing here. You need to face the facts that towing a HTT with multiple kids and a dog is not a wise choice.
X2. I guess if you don't get the answers that you like, just ask again in a different forum.
Chris and Jane and two boys (and a DDIL) who prefer tents
2013 Open Range Journeyer JT337RLS
2006 Dodge Ram 3500, 4x4, Crew Cab, DRW, 5.9 turbo diesel
1996 Harley Davidson Electraglide
3,600lbs (2 persons and luggage) less 1,000lbs for 2-3 more persons and luggage gets you to 2,600 lbs.
But drop that to 1,500lbs for safety margin.
None of the hybrid weakness issues apply.
The Toyota Corolla, a much weaker vehicle in terms of powertrain and unibody strength, is rated for 1,500lbs.
That puts you into trailers like the Scamp (1,300lbs) etc.
If you want to approach the maximum capacity (by persons in trailer) aim for a tent trailer or popup or hybrid that weighs about 1,500lbs.
Travel with it empty (no water, propane, etc.) to lighten the weight.
Fill when you get there.
Note that there is a frontal cross section issue / spec that you cannot exceed in addition to weight, and the tongue weight have to be real carefully done to be just enough but not overloading the tow vehicle.
Get close enough to the ratings, and consider only putting in 1/3 tank of gas at a time to cut weight (and risk).
Tires need to be at max. load pressure and in top shape.
Above all --- drive slow.
55 to 60mph max speed, real slow on hills.
You do fine.
I use to routinely tow U-Haul trailers with a minivan.
People here trying to talk you into a diesel 3500 are just what you think they are.
Many of the same people are grossly overloading their 3500s and think it is fine.
@1,500lbs trailer weight and acceptable frontal cross section, you are well within my standard for safety margins.
* This post was
last
edited 08/01/12 11:26am by NewsW *
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chevyman2 wrote: Well I wont say you CANT tow a small TT or HTT with your minivan. But consider this. The transmission in a minivan or most cars is not as strong as a trucks transmission. Also the final drive (gear ratio) is likely kinda high. (Most minivans are designed as vacation wagons to travel many miles on the open roads). That means they are built for "gas mileage", in order to accomplish that, final drive ratios are generally high, and engine torque is usually kinda low. In order to pull a trailer good, you need "LOW" gear ratio, and HIGH torque.
Now with the suspension.
Helper springs will help the rear for sure, but they will not give you bigger spindles, bearings, shocks, sway bar, brakes, ETC. A nice pickup will give you everything I just mentioned.
Can you tow something big with something little? --- SURE!!!!
I am just saying when the road is smooth and all is nice, you will do fine. Should the road get twisty quick, or a fast swerve is needed, you just might lose control yourself.
I understand you like your van, but IMO a truck/SUV/full size van will do the job better and safer. I would either buy a truck, or buy a PUP if it was me.
2X. I guess the OP wants someone to agree with him so he will feel better about doing it and it looks like News will....
In my life I've spent my money on women, booze, Harleys, guitars and traveling, the rest I just wasted...
2007 Ford F-350 diesel/dually & Sunnybrook Titan KSRV 39-1 Toy hauler 5th wheel hauling my custom Harley
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