RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
...
You can give a quick blast of starting fluid with the air cleaner cover removed and see if it will fire up.
Good luck.
Starting fluid is not a good idea! It will wash all the lube off the cylinder walls faster than any solvent. It's only meant for diesel engines that have so little compression they can't make enough heat to fire on a cold day. Even then it's hard on a big diesel. In a little gas engine...
If a gas engine has all the things a gas engine needs in order to run, it'll start. A little prime with gas, sure. Starting fluid, no. Please don't.
For an experiment take an oily piece of metal and hit it with the starting fluid. It'll be squeaky clean in no time at all, right to the metal pores.
I use a can of the stuff to remove oils from machining processes and even fingerprints. Works better than anything else, even spray brake cleaner is no match for it.
Sorry to be all insistent about this topic but that stuff is nasty on a motor.
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
I'm afraid I did something bad.
My Champion 2000i has been sitting all winter.
I went to pull it out and start it up this weekend, and can't get it to fire. I didn't drain it, or add stabil last fall, it just got grabbed with the rest of the camping supplies and tossed in the garage.
What do I need to do to get it running? Thanks.
I did that too. Drain the tank, drain the carb via taking the float bowl off, replace, fill with fresh gas, take the plug out and yank it over plenty, replace plug and start, full choke.
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
Lots on ebay, cheaper than this if you look
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-80-300V-LCD-Voltmeter-Socket-Flat-Plug-110V-220V-Volt-Meter-for-Home-Factory-/390566309884?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5aef90effc
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
There have been a few debates on this remarkable thread, about what a 2000 will run and what it won't run. This is a bit of a parlour trick and not something I expect the generator to tolerate in my normal camping operation but here goes anyway. My Champion 2000 inverter, as it runs both a 5300 BTU air conditioner and a microwave!
You can see that the voltage drops to 100 briefly (neat little outlet powered voltmeter off eBay, $7.00, shipped!) when the A/C cycles on and you hear the generator lean into the load. She takes it in her stride. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTYvY162eyc&feature=youtu.be
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
140 ft. Yes it surprized me but it does it. For minutes on end too, until the single glass of water I'd put in the microwave for a load started to boil over. The microwave spooled up a bit slower than it does on line current but not much slower. Seemed to have full output. I didn't have my standard wall plug-in voltmeter at that time to monitor voltage drop (7$ on eBay!) but it didn't appear strained.
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
I can run my 5500 BTU air conditioner AND my 1000 watt microwave oven simultaneously, with my Champion 2000 watt inverter! Caveats: The generator must be fully warmed up, the air conditioner must have cycled on first and then power up the microwave, and understand that the generator will be running in its highest RPM step if its in Economy mode, but yes the little thing will handle it.
I'll take a video if necessary for unbelievers, but it will have to be later after it warms up some around these parts, for the A/C compressor to cycle on.
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
To my experience, a dissatisfied customer condition is more strongly expressed than a satisfied. Unhappy is a louder condition, by human nature. (not to suggest that the reasons for said dissatisfaction are not valid as experienced said person)
Accusations of outright misrepresentation of fact and of duplicity with a manufacturer however, do push the boundaries of the kind of courtesy usually expected of a discussion board. I am sorry to read of it.
I'm happy with my own 2000i. It cost little ($500.00 CDN), delivers clean power, will operate my A/C as well as run my 1000 watt microwave, simultaneously! (when I start the A/C first)
If it won't actually ever put out 2000 watts as the case display suggests, well I doubt my car will actually go 120 miles per hour like the speedometer is graduated up to either. Neither condition bothers me, they both fulfill my needs. If a red or blue car actually can go 120, good on them. :) I am not humiliated by that condition.
I just look at my bank statement that still indicates $600.00 or so more than it would have had I bought a generator of those other colours, and I bask in my air conditioned cargo trailer conversion, content with the present situation.
Peace.
A happy 2000i owner. :)
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
...Voltage regulated alternators (~constant voltage charging systems) aren't really designed to charge batteries at all. They are designed to supply and maintain a more or less steady bus voltage, while supplying whatever loads happen to be drawing down the bus... (and much more)
A detailed and insightful post -=dwh=-. Thank you for that. :C
I have been active for some years now, on an ATV forum where part of the shared issues that forum members have dealt with are early battery failures.
The manufacturer (Suzuki) supplied their machines to dealers as crated near-finished assemblies, for final assembly and activation in the retail dealers shop. This includes activating the dry-shipped AGM battery.
The shops would generally give the rote duty of final assembly (swing up and tighten handlebars, fill oils, activate battery) to the least senior least experienced or least competent guy in the shop, and this guy would often activate the battery by squeezing the electrolyte into the cells as fast as he can, creating plate bubbles, giving it no time to absorb into the mat but immediately slapping it onto the automobile battery quick-charger for an hour.
Likewise, when the frustrated owner comes back in three months for a new battery because his won't hold a charge anymore, then the guy at the parts counter would take his battery order and tell him to come back in an hour for his battery.
In that hour the parts man will have done the same thing, shot the electrolyte into the battery and slapped it onto the quick charger. Then he hands the customer his nice fresh hot battery, and see you later. (in another three months or so)
Not that all shops or dealers have been doing this, but many have.
We have adopted the practice of insisting that any new AGM battery must be handed over in its sealed box, unmolested by the dealer or any of his cronies! The battery is then activated at the buyers home, by inverting the electrolyte bottle array over the battery and puncturing the foil covered bottlenecks in the prescribed fashion and letting the electrolyte drizzle into the cells at its own rate.
Then the battery is left alone for a couple of hours for the electrolyte to absorb into the mat.
Then it is charged at a low rate, with a smart charger at its low 2 amp rate or with a 1.5 or 2 amp battery maintainer (Tender) for eight or ten hours.
Activated in this fashion an AGM battery in this application lasts for years. Seven and counting for my present one. :)
It's sounding plausible that a stepped charge protocol, involving higher early voltage and progressive lesser voltage steps as the battery achieves greater potential, would do a bit better job than straight low amp long time charging...
But again we are looking to help Joe suburban weekend wrencher to get the most out of his machine, certainly to help him do an end run around the actual harm that less than fully competent shop mechanics or parts counter staff can cause. He probably has,(and certainly ought to have if he doesn't), a battery tender to use when his ATV is parked. If he can use that to safely activate his new battery, and doing so costs him .0025% of his battery's full capacity in so doing due to a bit of sulfation, then it's cheap at the price, especially when compared to what the donkey at the parts desk might have done!
Until makers start supplying their AGM batteries already activated, like Odyssey and Optima do, the chance that someone out of your sight will like as not activate and charge your nice new AGM battery the same way Grandpa charged the six volt Exide battery in his DeSoto and wreck it, is just too great.
Thanks again.
Whoops, swinging a bit off topic here, sorry. I sure like my Champion 2000i inverter charger though. :B
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
The problem with those power supplies as battery chargers, is they are regulated to 13.8v.
That is less voltage than what almost any flooded or AGM battery manufacturer recommends to achieve a full charge on their batteries.
Most 3-stage chargers will do a bulk to 14.4v to 14.8v (depending on who made the charger) and then drop to 14.2v for some hours for the absorb stage, and then drop to 13.2v to 13.8v (again, depending on who made the charger) as the long-term float (maintenance) stage.
So even if the power supply puts out 36a (peak, this would drop off as the battery voltage rises toward 13.8v), it's not going to get the battery fully charged because it will never push the voltage high enough to fully activate the chemistry (never reach full absorption).
It will work to get the battery to 85% or so of a full charge, and will hold it there as long as there is less than 36a of loads on the battery.
But taking the battery to 85% instead of 100% will increase the rate of sulfation, and will not extend the life of the battery as much as it would be extended if the battery were regularly pumped up to 100% with a proper charger.
Seeing as a common vehicle operating voltage is 13.8 V., are you saying that a production car's battery, as designed, never achieves a full state of charge?
That would seem awfully inefficient and would represent awfully negligent design from decades of automotive engineers.
:h
The internet is chock with advice and information about battery charging, with most lore being similar but variations existing. The most telling phrase I encountered is: 'You talk to different engineers, even at the same company, you get different answers.' :B
I'd have to think that the finished and stabilized voltage of an out of circuit wet battery will dictate what the level of charge it containes, and when the full charge voltage is 12.7 and the battery, removed by several hours from a charger, reads 12.7 volts then it is 100% charged, whether it got that way from being on the vehicles' own charging stystem, from being 12 hours on a 'maintainer' that generates no more than 13.8 volts, or whether it got that way from being on a three stage charger for a shorter period of time.
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
... ...Got through to Champion Customer Support / Tech support right away this morning and was told the following from the Tech Support guy on the phone regarding the module upgrade:
"There is no software upgrade. The only difference is whether there is an internal circuit breaker or an external circuit breaker. If you are reading something about this on the internet, it is wrong. We are the manufacturer and there is no software upgrade."
The guy actually sounded a bit exasperated / belligerent about it, so I didn't push any further...
I phoned the supplied tech line and asked about software/firmware or control module hardware updates, and I had a near identical conversation with a California tech line operator. "No such thing exists." "It's all the same since the beginning and we would know because we are the manufacturer.", spoken with a bit of condescension (?) and faintly detectable exasperation. (not to suggest he wasn't quite friendly and helpful answering my questions and advising me about other things to do with the 2000i, he was the perfect and competent gentleman)
In light of all the information to the contrary, my take is that it's plausible that there was a corporate decision made at Champion to deny the existence of developmental control module improvements in subsequent runs of the 2000i that address a burp, and that service techs have been directed to hold to this party line but being human, are not particularly comfortable having to repeat this crock, and it shows in their exasperation when asked about it.
My guess is that some bean counter has probably crunched the numbers and an upper manager has decided that not only would cost it too much if everyone who has already bought a 2000i wanted the update, but that if Champion did offer a broad based update then the public perception would be that 'there's something wrong with Champion generators' and the perceived knock to Champions image with potential new buyers would outweigh the gratitude of customers who after all, have already bought.
As another stated, I can understand if the company elects not to make every evolutionary change available gratis to all past buyers, but denying the very existence of electronic updates that correct a widespread operating quirk, borders on insulting.
That in itself damages Champions sought-after good reputation for service more than the burp itself.
If Champion execs read this forum still, keep it on the up and up guys. Don't fib to your good customers. "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we venture to deceive."
And give that guy who said "Tell 'em it doesn't exist" a smack inna back adda head. :D
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
When I referenced a brute force transformer battery charger having a better power factor than a modern switching charger I was thinking about this thing. It is about $100 to $125 and will quickly recharge a battery bank at 40 amps from the 2000i no sweat. But, as I noted it is NOT a "smart" charger and can overcharge a battery if left on 40 amps unattended - which is why it includes a built in timer. Charge rate can be switched to 15 or 2 amps as well.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/professor95/p8220482.jpg
I have that very charger and far from 'smart', it is a seriously stupid charger.
I was baffled at why it didn't put a full charge on my Optima AGM battery on its 2 amp setting until I put a voltmeter across and found it was going to a maximum 12.2 volts on that setting! Since a full charge is 12.65 volts after the battery has had time to settle after coming off the charge I understood that a guy could leave it on that setting all day, it isn't going to put more than half a charge on the battery. The '15 amp' setting was near full charge voltage but that meant that as the battery approached full potential the charge rate would slow to next to nothing.
So I put it on the 40 amp setting and found the voltage was now dangerously high, over 15.7 volts. That's when I came up with the brainwave to put an old car headlight in series with the charging battery, to reduce the voltage by adding resistive load.
It worked well, or seemed to. It charged at just under 14 volts, a comfortable charge condition similar to what the battery experiences in the vehicle. It seemed stable, so I left it like that for a while. When I returned however, I ran smack into the educational reality that a charging battery presents a varying load as it achieves a greater state of charge, and it was now sitting at a high voltage again despite the in-series headlight. The battery was hot to the touch, and ruined.
Pretty certain that the Professor will have a far better way of explaining it but what I believe I found is that advertized 'amps' is a common and expected but unfortunately misleading way for a maker to indicate what rate a charger is charging a battery.
The actual amperage flowing is going to be dependent on a number of factors such as the batteries present state of charge, the physical size and capacity of the battery, the line voltage supplying the charger, and the soundness of the contact of the clamps. A '2 amp' charger hooked to a big old Cat battery 'might' be charging at a rate of 2 amps but hooked to a little motorcycle battery, be pouring a whole lot more into it.
For the battery charger maker to claim how many amps their device is going to be charging your battery, is like an engine maker blindly providing a throttle setting at the factory and then telling you how fast that's supposed to make your vehicle go, without them knowing how heavy the vehicle will be, what gear it will be in, or how level the road will be!
Sort of...
In any case I'm sold on voltage controlled smart chargers. :) Best thing since low ash oil.
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
Certainly was a browser bug. I tried again at my home computer using firefox and indeed the page and its catagories of bulletins all appeared... but none of the Generator bulletins addressed anything about the burp and none of them were the equivalent of the PDF page the kind gentleman sent me!
In any case I don't believe mine runs any richer than it did, seems more like the idle orfice had become occluded and the cleaning of it returned the genny to the way it ran when I first bought it.
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
Odd, all the 'generators' link does is refresh the same general bulletins page, it won't take me anywhere else.
But a gentleman was kind enough to PM me for my Email and then sent me the PDF bulletin. Amusingly, the bulletin says to do the very thing I found necessary, though I didn't have to remove the stepper motor and the cleaned up orfice was definitely smaller than .0018
Thanks.
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
Fixed my burp, if that's what we're calling that awful hunting behavior that makes the generator sound like someone is shutting the ignition off for a few moments every couple of seconds.
The genny had worked just fine until I took it to a camping spot at 3000 ft last weekend, and right away it started this rump rump business.
Kept it up when I got back home too at my 140' above sea level, so the fact it started screwing up at a bit of elevation was just a coincidence.
Seemed to be running lean. The main jet was clear but there was a little bit of golden crud on the bottom of the float bowl. Aha! Turns out the pilot jet up top the carb was plugged. The orfice is tiny! It only admitted the smallest drill I have to clean it up, a #80 or .00135". Any bigger and the drill dug into brass but while the 80 was stiff and resisting at first, it ran freely by bare finger twist after a bit, with no brass evident on the flutes so that's got to be the size the pilot jet was intended to be.
After putting it back together it purrs like the proverbial kitten again.
RE: The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread
I waded through 103 pages before I cheated by jumping to the latest 10. recently bought a Champion 2000 mainly to use with my toy hauler, a converted 6 x 10 cargo trailer that serves as both living quarter and transport for my ATV.
The Champion so far runs like... a champion. It runs my 5200 BTU air conditioner in econo mode at what seems to be it's low idle speed with just a little rump-rump adjustment of the governor when the compressor kicks in.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t235/choatelodge/CIMG1024Medium.jpg
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t235/choatelodge/CIMG1028Medium.jpg
It runs the 1000 watt microwave too, although the startup surge really makes the generator do the brownout funky chicken for a few seconds before it settles into a steady output at its high state (same RPM it would do without the econo switch engaged) I believe it's a good idea not to run the little genny in econo for the nuker. It runs the microwave seamlessly in normal mode.
As far as running power tools within reason or small appliances, no problem at all. Smooth as silk.
From what I can tell so far, long as an owner doesn't try to make it do things it is obviously not made to do, it should do the job of light electrical supply for dry camping just fine, and ought to last a long time.
